Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#291

Post by hodgesrm » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 2:46 AM UTC

DJPocari wrote: post #187

Where do we draw the line on how we censor the internet? Obviously actual terrorist group sites can and should be taken down, but this feels like it's getting more murky than that. - Should we be okay with Facebook censoring these groups? - Should we be okay with Google censoring search results? - Should we be okay with Apple censoring apps? - Should we be okay with AWS censoring websites? - Should we be okay with Go…

There's a legitimate debate to be had on these issues but the speech we're seeing from the Far Right is well over the line of protected speech. It's now advocating civil war. The consequences of allowing it to continue should be obvious to any reasonable person after the assault on the US Capitol on Jan 6. That was just the beginning.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#292

Post by fatbird » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 2:46 AM UTC

Freedom of speech basically always has two sides to it. If you would prevent Twitter from suspending Trump's account, then you're forcing Twitter to be a platform for the president; you're literally requiring it to broadcast the government's message.

You're not protecting freedom of speech in itself when you damage one party's to protect another's.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#293

Post by scarecrowbob » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 2:46 AM UTC

blhack wrote: post #215

Are all of the people here who are saying that parler is full of all sorts of bad things actually on the website, or are you just sortof assuming that? I went to go look at the site, and it requires me to sign in to do anything, and that requires a phone number. I don't want to give them my phone number. Have you guys all seriously gone and signed up for accounts, given these people your phone number, and actually go…

I think your point is legit. I don't have an account because I didn't want to find a burner phone.

One of the things I do is pay a lot of attention to the rhetoric of people on the US right... I've been trying to understand what all is being said and why, and my general understanding is that there are a lot of folks with legit grievances filtering them through highly, uh, metaphorical understandings of reality.

A lot of what I see in other media taken from Parler is out-and-out falsehoods about the world. And I have seen quite a lot of content in the various right-wing FB groups I have been in... enough that I don't feel like I have no gauge for what the discourse there looks like.

You're correct that they aren't directly "planning political violence".

However, it is a system where there are unchallenged and wholly fictitious views of the world being spread as if they were the patent truth. That's legal, but it's the epistemic equivalent of smoking meth and if I were a tech company interested in the continued function of the US I'd do everything in my power to stop that process.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#294

Post by efleeus » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 2:47 AM UTC

Nbox9 wrote: post #274

This is an incredibly sort timeframe to expect someone to be able to migrate off AWS. If there infrastructure is docker, or K8 than they can move quickly, but if they are tied into more than a couple of AWS specific services like Route 53 or Lambda then a migration is a big ask.

Agreed. Though I'd point out this it's an incredibly long time to leave the infrastructure in place when there is active planning of further violence taking place on the platform.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#295

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 2:48 AM UTC

frEdmbx wrote: post #70

Everything we're witnessing is a result of the slavers prepping for the collapse of the world reserve fiat global enslavement system, and their attempts to maintain dominion throughout. The permissionless, decentralized, alternatives, aren't part of the same freefall as all the perpetually inflated fiat currencies, and are problem for them. https://fiatmarketcap.com/ They must convince us to accept the violations of…

[deleted]

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#296

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 2:48 AM UTC

blhack wrote: post #215

Are all of the people here who are saying that parler is full of all sorts of bad things actually on the website, or are you just sortof assuming that? I went to go look at the site, and it requires me to sign in to do anything, and that requires a phone number. I don't want to give them my phone number. Have you guys all seriously gone and signed up for accounts, given these people your phone number, and actually go…

[deleted]

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#297

Post by ogre_codes » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 2:48 AM UTC

mjfl wrote: post #146

I've read comments saying, "if you don't like Apple's policies, build a new smartphone." Are these people aware that that the same type of argument lead to the creation of parler: "if you don't like twitter censorship, build a new platform". It will be built. What then? At this point we are heading towards a complete mitosis of our information channels based on political ideology.

Parler just needs to enforce their own policies and this wouldn't be an issue. They wouldn't need to bend their will to anyone's political agenda, just enforce the policies they themselves espouse.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#298

Post by nemo44x » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 2:48 AM UTC

DJPocari wrote: post #187

Where do we draw the line on how we censor the internet? Obviously actual terrorist group sites can and should be taken down, but this feels like it's getting more murky than that. - Should we be okay with Facebook censoring these groups? - Should we be okay with Google censoring search results? - Should we be okay with Apple censoring apps? - Should we be okay with AWS censoring websites? - Should we be okay with Go…

I believe in property rights. The service is the property of the shareholders. They should be able to do what they want with their property so long as it isn’t breaking a law.

This is why I can’t understand some conservatives having an issue with this. It is principled to anyone who believes in the private ownership of property that they can ban whoever they want.

I also believe internet companies shouldn’t have special privileges. They should be responsible for anything illegal on their property they could reasonably be believed to know about. Especially so if the content is user generated and made public. Crowdsourcing should be a liability.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#299

Post by notsureaboutpg » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 2:48 AM UTC

npunt wrote: post #198

The short term calculus seems pretty clear: if a service is unable to moderate conversations that are inciting and planning imminent violence that undermines the fabric of democratic society (aka inauguration or the disruption of the transfer of power over the next 12 days), its better to shut it off than keep it around in case that violence comes to pass. Precautionary principle applies and a circuit breaker goes of…

>that undermines the fabric of democratic society

This has become our new blasphemy. It's hip to be a Puritan again. It's cool to collectively hate and punish anything which is deemed to "undermine the fabric of society"

Right now it means exactly what you all want it to mean. Wait till all sorts of things you liked to do and think are considered to "undermined the fabric of society", then it'll be too late. Good chance for people to sell some books about the delicacy of societal fabric and which outline all the baddies and ghouls that destroy the fabric of society with their various unorthodox moral / political positions.

EDIT: People will point out that this specific group / incident / thing was objectively bad. Sure, I agree with that. But the precedent being laid down here will go farther than all of you intended. "undermine the fabric of democratic society" is what I highlighted. Lots of reasonable things undermine the fabric of society (especially corrupt / unjust societies) but should still be allowed. Perhaps this was a poor choice of words, but when talking about what should be censored and what shouldn't be, words matter.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#300

Post by fatbird » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 2:48 AM UTC

logicslave wrote: post #175

People on the left are mistaken if they think this is going to help. Someone somewhere in the country will plot something. We are playing with fire with these type of restrictions, root causes are not being solved. 75 million people voted for Donald Trump.

When you make it harder, or at least less convenient, for that someone, somewhere, to plot something, you're taking concrete steps to improve public safety and deter crime.

Just because plots will occur is not a reason to avoid making it harder for them to succeed.