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Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

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Re: Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

#291

Post by t-writescode »

confluence_perf wrote: post #199
meibo wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is even worse than the crazy slowness. I spend 10 minutes to make a detailed bug report, just to have it fall apart after submitting. How does that happen in a software made to show bug reports? Just use standard markdown instead of your own bullcrap formatting that doesn't ever seem to work.

Best I can say here (as a Confluence PM not a Jira one, and in a public forum) is that customers are not the only ones that experience this pain, and the appropriate folks are notified on a regular basis. I think the genesis of this is historically many different editable fields might had different modules behind them (not every single one a different one, but maybe a handful of common ones). It looks like for whatev…

This is the top response on your profile, so I’m commenting here.

Atlassian is developed and run in Australia, right?

Have you tried running your website and doing the things we mention here from a VPN that goes through the United States or Europe to experience our latency to your servers overall?

I haven’t done any testing myself on this, but if you’re doing serial requests and each request is an https call back and forth to Australia, that’s easily 200ms every request, even if total server time is milliseconds.

And even if you support parallel, if you limit the number of requests per non-whitelisted IP by a lot, it can very easily become approximately serial

Re: Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

#292

Post by sebastien_b »

dekhn wrote: post #285
gregmac wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are they doing to do? Shut down your instance and force you to switch to a different product....? Hmmmm

Certainly there are providers who would immediately begin license renegotiation with the thread of termination. It's bad business in the modern era because somebody will just tweet out the renegotiation terms and the licensors don't want to be streisanded.

> Certainly there are providers who would immediately begin license renegotiation with the thread of termination

Oracle comes to mind.

Re: Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

#293

Post by confluence_perf »

t-writescode wrote: post #291
confluence_perf wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Best I can say here (as a Confluence PM not a Jira one, and in a public forum) is that customers are not the only ones that experience this pain, and the appropriate folks are notified on a regular basis. I think the genesis of this is historically many different editable fields might had different modules behind them (not every single one a different one, but maybe a handful of common ones). It looks like for whatev…

This is the top response on your profile, so I’m commenting here. Atlassian is developed and run in Australia, right? Have you tried running your website and doing the things we mention here from a VPN that goes through the United States or Europe to experience our latency to your servers overall? I haven’t done any testing myself on this, but if you’re doing serial requests and each request is an https call back and…

Hi t-writescode,

For the most part, each individual top line products' team operates out of a different site, with Confluence operating in Silicon Valley (mostly). I assume this is public information (or derivable) so I think it's safe to share.

Internally we have a few Confluence Cloud instances we use, with a single main one shared by the entire company (basically) which is located in a single area (somewhere?), though the VPN connection points are different.

So from a network topology standpoint our experience shouldn't be too different from most customers (at a very gross level) -> summary is, we definitely have users representative of 'bad networking', but you're right maybe I should be trying to intentionally degrade mine (right now i think its two cross US hops, but could be wrong).

I'll make sure our team looks at this dimension -> I don't think it's possible within our telemetry data, but maybe simulating it will get some interesting results.

I do recall reading once about something about AWS infrastructure (endpoints? edges?) having some configuration that causes omething like this: 1 - first returned packet is some some small size 2 - next packet (after ack is returned) can be double the size 3 - same 4 - same 5 - until max packet size

And though (1) is configurable (in theory), and I think the doubling/size increase is configurable (in theory), AWS does not allow for this configuration in their services.

But I can't find what I was reading so if anyone knows about that (a) being a problem and (b) how to work around it, let me know!

Re: Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

#294

Post by uuuugh »

confluence_perf wrote: post #258
uuuugh wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the guy above said is not true. Jira Cloud uses Jira Cloud to manage their projects. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY91A_4Mbts

Both right a) the public facing jira.atlassian.com is Server/DC instance - but this instance is only used for customer/outside world facing tickets (I think) b) internally for our own development we use a few (several?) cloud instances -> but I can only speak to those I interact with (Conf Cloud and Jira Cloud primarily).

I used to work on Jira and it frustrates me seeing people say we don't dogfood our products when internally we do everything on a staging instance. jira.atlassian.com is not something developers use, and is a public facing instance.

Re: Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

#295

Post by jchook »

chrisandchris wrote: post #277
jchook wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out Clubhouse.io I've used many others including Github, GitLab, Phabricator, Redmine, etc., and Clubhouse does a great job IMO.

Is there an on-prem version?

Their FAQ[1] says no, but they would like to gauge interest in that feature and to reach-out to their support team.

1. https://help.clubhouse.io/hc/en-us/articles/360036047091-Clu...

Re: Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

#296

Post by SigKill9 »

dalrympm wrote: post #22

I'm curious, I'm a Cloud customer and I can tell you that the service is incredibly slow even for a small scale setup (2 Jira Projects and 3 Confluence Workspaces). There's an insane amount of network requests seemingly for mouse tracking. By telling everyone here, that Atlassian Cloud products are insufferably slow, am I violating the ToS? I was actually thinking about doing a write up on the issues I've had but thi…

If you are looking for a fast alternative, we're building www.kitemaker.co (I'm one of the founders). We're part of the upcoming YC batch, and I'd be happy to help you onboard and import existing projects if needed.

Re: Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

#297

Post by hchz »

grzm wrote: post #119
hchz wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people don't want to use it at all, and don't care for the situation that C-suite everywhere buys Atlassian's trash. They don't want minor improvements to help it limp along, they want to vent and complain about it. I think it's impossible that Atlassian evolves into a good product company, but it's entirely possible that my next CTO googled for opinions on the product, found a few discussions on HN with a combi…

And the thread from yesterday ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25590846 for a site named https://whyjirasucks.com ) or any of the other many rants on Altassian around the web don't suffice? I hardly think that this thread is going to be the tipping point. It's not like this is news. Given your opinions regarding Atlassian, what would you think of your next CTO if they were even considering Atlassian? Is that so…

(Perhaps I'm not a good person to ask, as I don't work at a product company or in IT services)

I really wouldn't give it a second thought, as everybody is using this stuff.

In my niche, there is very little focus on this kind of project management, due to the required speed of development and deployment.

If you work fast and reliably enough, delivering commercially important software, nobody is asking about a JIRA ticket.

Re: Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

#298

Post by deathweasel »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #168
dalrympm wrote: post #22

I'm curious, I'm a Cloud customer and I can tell you that the service is incredibly slow even for a small scale setup (2 Jira Projects and 3 Confluence Workspaces). There's an insane amount of network requests seemingly for mouse tracking. By telling everyone here, that Atlassian Cloud products are insufferably slow, am I violating the ToS? I was actually thinking about doing a write up on the issues I've had but thi…

I'm very curious about where the slowdown is coming from. Is it mostly JS on the client or Java on the server? When I ran my own Confluence server on a Digital Ocean VM, it was slow but not unbearable. I assumed it was Tomcat's fault* or the fact that I wasn't using a "real" database on the backend (a configuration Atlassian frowns upon). *Confluence is built on Tomcat. Don't know if this is also true for Jira. Now t…

Over here, at least, a lot of the time is spent just waiting for content. Even static content from CDNs. I'm guessing they're not geolocating properly.

See https://community.atlassian.com/t5/Jira-questions/How-to-swi...

Re: Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

#299

Post by Benlights »

nate_770 wrote: post #240

I read HN every day, I never post, I signed up for an account just to post this. I'm a senior PM at a large e-comm company, I was EXTREMELY frustrated with the horrible performance of Jira Cloud, I submitted support tickets to no avail. It's obviously an over-architected broken system. I moved my team to clubhouse, even-though it created an element of fragmentation considering all other teams are using JIRA. I'm so h…

Heya Nate I thought it was you when I read the comment just has to look at the username.

Re: Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

#300

Post by Slackwise »

confluence_perf wrote: post #28
dalrympm wrote: post #22

I'm curious, I'm a Cloud customer and I can tell you that the service is incredibly slow even for a small scale setup (2 Jira Projects and 3 Confluence Workspaces). There's an insane amount of network requests seemingly for mouse tracking. By telling everyone here, that Atlassian Cloud products are insufferably slow, am I violating the ToS? I was actually thinking about doing a write up on the issues I've had but thi…

Sorry to hear it's been a frustrating experience. I'm a PM for Confluence Cloud and we're always trying to make it better. Would you be willing to share more specifics, such as: - Pages with content X are the slowest - Trying to do A/B/C is annoyingly slow - etc ? (edit: looks like HN is severely limiting my reply rate so apologies for delays) We're trying to focus on frustrating pages/experiences rather than number…

> I'm a PM for Confluence Cloud and we're always trying to make it better.

Can you guys please make Ctrl-S save and not exit editing? My muscle memory is costing me 10+ seconds of load times every time I type a paragraph and reflexively save, getting dumped back to the view mode of a document. The slow load times exacerbate the problem tremendously. I honestly don't know a single product that treats Ctrl/Cmd-S as "Save and Exit" so this is just a baffling UI/UX design decision.

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