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School or Prison

schoolprison.com

291–300 of 497 posts

Re: School or Prison

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like her. Last time I taught HS I told my students that I would never deny them the right to go to the bathroom, but that if they went more than three times in a week (or something) I would send a note to the nurse so she could discuss a possible health issue with them and their parents.

Going to the bathroom more than three times a week means they have a health issue? Seems a bit heavy-handed. Lots of kids get bullied and would rather go to the bathroom during class when no one else is in the bathroom. At some point, it becomes routine so it makes sense that you would go to the bathroom during the same class. That said, my world history class in high school was so boring, I would ask to go to the ba…

No, it doesn't "mean they have a health issue", and I didn't say that it did. Part of the teacher's job is to look for signs of abuse, bullying, and health problems. I'm not a doctor. I see a possible symptom, I'll bring it to the attention of people who can help. If they are using the bathroom frequently because they are being bullied then I am exactly doing my job in the best way possible by alerting the nurse, who can alert the counselor, etc.

Re: School or Prison

#292
I think the only perceivable different is likely the size and placement of windows. Also prisons are highly unlikely to not have security bars or screens on every window (excluding a public entry foyer which is not part of the actual prison.

Re: School or Prison

#293

As someone who's been to prison and school, lots of comments here sound pretty tone deaf. Prison in the USA is really bad. Yes school is authoritarian, but most popular entertainment on prisons downplays how bad it really gets. Watch some interviews of people who have actually been to prison. Murder and rape is common (I saw it happen), you will get your possessions stolen under the threat of murder/rape, you'll prob…

I know a judge who has said the US "corrections" system is not designed to correct criminals and prevent future crimes. It's designed to punish people.

Re: School or Prison

#294

As someone who's been to prison and school, lots of comments here sound pretty tone deaf. Prison in the USA is really bad. Yes school is authoritarian, but most popular entertainment on prisons downplays how bad it really gets. Watch some interviews of people who have actually been to prison. Murder and rape is common (I saw it happen), you will get your possessions stolen under the threat of murder/rape, you'll prob…

Thank you for posting this. I couldn’t believe the other comments trying to equate schools with prison. It’s unbelievable how we treat prisoners in the US. I wish there was more I could do than vote and donate to causes like the ACLU. Starting to realize that my beliefs are in the minority re: how to treat fellow countrymen, even those who have committed crimes.

I think it's because we as people tend to speak from our experiences, and I do agree that school is more authoritarian than it should be.

I'm not sure what else you can do :( it's a really big systemic issue. I think we just need more awareness, first?

Social life in prison involves having "friends" who can any day decide to try and rob or fight you (both happened to me with my closest "friend"). Nobody has real friends. It's dog eat dog, you lose the ability to trust, and don't have any trusting social connections. That's extremely painful. When you talk to people on the outside, every prisoner just tries to deceive them into thinking things are just dandy: I'm not sure why that happens, but it means those connections aren't real either. It's all so much worse psychologically than is conveyed in popular media. We don't know how to quantify psychological suffering though; as a society we rather put people through huge amounts of that than some visible physical suffering (which, again, is probably strongly preferable to the criminal).

Unfortunately most of the people suffering in the prison system are poor, so we don't hear what they have to say. If you're rich, you can afford your own lawyer and get a much better plea deal, and get out quickly. It's also very racist: you will really understand Black Lives Matter when you meet a black father who was sentenced to 30 years in prison for a nonviolent drug offense, and realize there are 100,000s - millions of people in the exact same situation: it's destroying entire communities. I've seen the way black people who a judge has never seen before are villified from their appearance: go to a courtroom near you if you don't believe me, it's shocking. I'm talking about in San Francisco, not even a rural area.

Anyways, thank you for your empathy. I wish more people understood that criminals will commit less crime if they're forgiven and accepted by society, instead of villified. And it's also the decent thing to do. Prisons are bad cultures because the small number of actual bad actors push everything to this shitty equilibrium: most prisoners individually have a lot of shame about their crimes, and as strong a moral code as the average person. Some definitely do not: and it's hard for the justice system to make the distinction.

All things which are hard to believe until you have some real world experience with these things...

Re: School or Prison

#295

A more meaningful comparison would be bathroom privileges. In prison you can pretty much poop or get a drink of water whenever you want. In school you need special permission, and hope the teacher wasn't in a bad mood or that 3 other kids hadn't needed to pee in the last half hour, meeting some mental quota the teacher has for the appropriate # of people that should have to use the toilet during a given period of tim…

Prison maybe, but don’t forget about jails. I’ve visited jails in panopticon “pod” setups for 40–50-ish people bunked two-each in rooms with no bars (just a painted line dividing cells from common areas) that had a single separate common restroom/shower where each trip must be requested and approved. San Francisco’s jail is like that.

Re: School or Prison

#296

Before I go off topic, very cool and interesting app. I was surprised by the number of times I got it wrong. Now then... There's a lot of people crapping on schools and teachers in this thread, and as a former teacher and spouse of a teacher I'd like to point out a few things: Schools and teachers provide a vital service. Not only do they educate our children, they babysit our children, and the pandemic has shown us…

> If you truly knew how manipulative a group of children can be, when ganged together you'd understand this. Toilet breaks are often abused, with children skipping class to, for instance, vape in the toilets

Doesn't justify denying basic biological rights.

Re: School or Prison

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In prison you can pretty much poop or get a drink of water whenever you want. In school you need special permission [...] Uhm. Where in the world do you live?! :O

The US. It's not a very dignified setup in prison with 4 people in a cell, but most prisons have a toilet and a sink in each cell.

How can you possibly square "four people living in a cell with an open toilet" with "you can poop whenever you want"?

Re: School or Prison

#298
post #293

As someone who's been to prison and school, lots of comments here sound pretty tone deaf. Prison in the USA is really bad. Yes school is authoritarian, but most popular entertainment on prisons downplays how bad it really gets. Watch some interviews of people who have actually been to prison. Murder and rape is common (I saw it happen), you will get your possessions stolen under the threat of murder/rape, you'll prob…

I know a judge who has said the US "corrections" system is not designed to correct criminals and prevent future crimes. It's designed to punish people.

Yeah completely agree that's what it's designed for, but to what end? What goal do we think the punishment achieves?

The only useful thing about it IMO is preventing truly dangerous/sick people from interacting with the rest of society. Most prisoners are not that

Re: School or Prison

#300

As someone who's been to prison and school, lots of comments here sound pretty tone deaf. Prison in the USA is really bad. Yes school is authoritarian, but most popular entertainment on prisons downplays how bad it really gets. Watch some interviews of people who have actually been to prison. Murder and rape is common (I saw it happen), you will get your possessions stolen under the threat of murder/rape, you'll prob…

> Why don't we have more outrage against this outdated institution created out of 1600 era values?

I can be outraged at both outdated, dehumanizing institutions.

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