World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018) • Hacker News Board

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#291

Post by isthatsoup » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 9:09 PM UTC

stirner wrote: post #252

yboris wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typically, people who have a higher-than-average concern for the welfare of animals also have a higher-than-average concern for welfare of people. Compassion and empathy seems to grow for both, not be a trade-off. Compare an analogous concern to the one you raise: "what if caring about people of color comes at the cost of empathy for your fellow whites?"

I walk past PETA’s west coast headquarters in Los Angeles every week, and they have inset windows behind a small ledge that’s raised from the street and protected from the weather [1]. They have the raised metal studs near the edge of the ledge, which are called “skateboard deterrents” [2], but given that the ledge is a couple inches high and unsuitable for any sort of grind trick, the purpose is clearly to prevent t…

do you shed a tear when you walk past a homeless shelter that serves meat, clothes their homeless in wool and doesn't have bird safety film on all the windows? Oh you don't. When it comes to supporting animal welfare, you have to be considered "perfect" for some reason.

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#292

Post by aazaa » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 9:09 PM UTC

majewsky wrote: post #283

aazaa wrote: post #281

> Instead, a laser beam burns a 0.3mm-wide hole in the shell. Then, air pressure is applied to the shell exterior, pushing a drop of fluid out of the hole. The process takes one second per egg and enables fluid to be collected from eggs without touching them. This seems counterintuitive. If the external pressure is equally applied around the egg, what forces the fluid to escape?

I would assume the external pressure causes the shell to elastically deform so that it contains less volume, hence a drop of fluid is squeezed out.

Isn't that drop experiencing the same pressure as well? If so, what causes the fluid to escape?

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#293

Post by mike00632 » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 9:11 PM UTC

chordalkeyboard wrote: post #261

kaycebasques wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know but I think I can anticipate your concern. It's very viable to meet your protein needs on a vegan diet. That stuff about vegans not being able to get complete proteins is meat industry propaganda. Furthermore, the World Health Organization said that only 10 to 15% of daily calories need to come from protein. I believe I've also read that there's no proven benefit to all of the extra protein that American…

I disagree. I was vegetarian for 2 years for ethical reasons. Animal-based protein is much easier to digest. And your average person perhaps doesn't need much protein...because your average person has no concept of exercise or fitness except as something other people do. Then your average person falls victim to metabolic syndrome and other western lifestyle related diseases. Once you set fitness goals your nutrition…

Quick reminder that the vast majority of Americans eat too much protein.

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#294

Post by codyb » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 9:12 PM UTC

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #196

codyb wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was only recently I put two and two together and realized farmers kill all the male calfs which result from impregnating cows so they can start being milked. On the other hand... veal is delicious. But it does feel a bit bad. At this point I just aim for local farms for meat as much as possible, and organic and pasture raised where I can't. Even if they still kill the male borns, at least I know the animals are be…

what about steers?

Well, yea, certainly they let some of them grow up to become beef products instead of veal products. But a lot of them just become veal since they have their quantity of steer head already.

And the females are grown up and impregnated and milked and the process repeats.

At least, that's my understanding of it all anyways.

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#295

Post by mike00632 » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 9:15 PM UTC

52-6F-62 wrote: post #275

bananabreakfast wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the premise at all. That's a disingenuous strawman that anti-vegans would say to eachother about vegans to rile themselves up. It shows a total lack of understanding of what they're really about.

Please don't twist my contributions to being so ill-hearted. We're supposed to respond to each comment with generosity around here—defaulting to sincerity. The discussion began with moralizing about eating other living things.

You literally proposed killing all humans and now feel unfairly portrayed as "ill-hearted".

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#296

Post by isthatsoup » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 9:16 PM UTC

shalmanese wrote: post #158

OscarCunningham wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Egg laying hens are bred for different traits than the ones for meat. So the male chicks of egg laying hens would probably grow more slowly and to a smaller size than ones bred for meat. Thus their meat would be more expensive.

I've always wondered if you could market this as "vegetarian chicken" under the rationale that eating it doesn't cause an increase in net animal death. It may be more expensive but plenty of things are sold as more expensive for the ethical version. At the end of the day, my suspicion is even most vegetarians don't like being confronted with the realities of egg production.

Nope, that's the same faulty reasoning people use to justify purchasing leather. As if making the killing of cows more economical is somehow a good thing, and acting like demand for the product itself isn't going to cause companies to act to meet it and increase net animal death. It's completely naive.

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#297

Post by noxer » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 9:19 PM UTC

0-_-0 wrote: post #166

noxer wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People want it to be but facts are not up for a debate.

How does your argument apply to humans then? How long until you consider an embryo a living human?

I didn't even made an argument. "To kill" means somehow causing the death of something. This the fact. It doesn't matter if its a animal or a human. An certainly doesn't matter where it happens. You can kill something/someone on purpose, by accident or "involuntary on purpose" like in self defense but that doesn't change the killing part. You caused the death of something = you killed. Facts are neutral. I'm not saying chicks should or should not be killed whether inside the egg or outside. All I'm saying is that it is without any doubt killing, therefore the "no-kill" thing is a lie. Killing an embryo inside a human obviously is killing to. There is a special word for that but that doesn't change the facts.

Also I assume with "embryo" you meant a "human embryo" so by definition it is already a living human (assuming its not a dead human embryo). Its a living humans it a early development state that we call embryo it will become a living humans fetus and so on unless it dies or gets killed. These are the facts, words have meanings and definitions. Thats why we can not kill SARS-CoV-2 with bleach because by definition viruses are not alive so we can not cause its death)

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#298

Post by gowld » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 9:21 PM UTC

slothtrop wrote: post #94

tashoecraft wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing is ever enough for anyone. Look at any discussion here. "This software should be fully free without ads", "this license isn't permissive enough", it's not distrbuted, it's not blockchain, it is blockchain, it's written in java. And I think it's fine. We need people on the extremes in order to put pressure and advance things, as extremes rarely get implemented, but meeting in the middle does.

> We need people on the extremes After 2020, I'd like to see more in the middle. I think extremes are overrepresented.

Tech's most famous extremist, RMS, turned out to be more moderate than where the mainstream ended up, within a span of under 40 years.

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#299

Post by smabie » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 9:22 PM UTC

kgwgk wrote: post #148

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help you if you choose to read things that pedantically. Maybe get a job as a lawyer. I guess I need to edit and insert "no technical reason" or "no non-price sensitive reason" in for you?

Some people may argue that raising and killing one "meat-efficient chicken" is preferable to raising and killing three "inefficient" ones from a moral point of view.

Would they be willing to actually pay for it?

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#300

Post by firethief » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 9:24 PM UTC

La1n wrote: post #30

sveme wrote: post #26

I've been buying no-kill eggs for years now, there are plenty of egg distributors that hatch two-use chickens, the males grow large enough to be edible, the females lay eggs. Available for years. I really don't see an advantage of this technology for the consumer, the real advantage lies with the producers.

> the males grow large enough to be edible, It would seem to me these are still killed. Lacto-ovo vegetarians might still prefer no-kill egg as shown in the article.

You don't have to kill them to eat them, as long as you aren't eating all of them. A lot of poultry live in conditions where they have no use for wings or thighs anyway.