Live data from Hacker News

Arecibo telescope, on the brink of collapse, will be dismantled

sciencemag.org

291–300 of 315 posts

Re: Arecibo telescope, on the brink of collapse, will be dismantled

#291
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really depends on the structure. Giant steel objects are much harder to keep intact, to the point where non iconic objects are easier to replace once than maintain for 100+ years.

Like the (iconic) Sydney Harbour Bridge which requires continuous repainting. It’s very expensive to maintain. https://www.australiangeographic.com.au/blogs/ag-blog/2013/1...

"Painting the Forth Bridge" is an expression in these parts describing a never ending task. However, with better pain this is apparently not the case anymore:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forth_Bridge#Maintenance

Re: Arecibo telescope, on the brink of collapse, will be dismantled

#292
post #187

Oh Arecibo, how I will miss thee. I had the luck to tour the observatory in the early teens with a physics conference. Someone pulled a few strings and we got the technical tour. It was amazing and full of facts, but two things still stick with me. First, Aricebo as a space observatory was a serendipitous accident. It was originally designed just to be an atmospheric observatory. The original idea and calculations fo…

That's cool as hell and why in the world are we all building stupid AI advertising platforms today?

(Slightly unfair) TLDR: Capitalism and Consumer culture.

Re: Arecibo telescope, on the brink of collapse, will be dismantled

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically everything that has to do with space is tied into the military. I'm sure the Chinese aren't going to the moon just for science.

Same reason the Americans and the Soviets did: national pride.

I'd say it's more "feelings of national inadequacy"

Re: Arecibo telescope, on the brink of collapse, will be dismantled

#294
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's delightful. The ecology of science education misconceptions is a wild and wonderful thing. My best laugh of yesterday was this page[1] from the Stanford Solar Center, saying "It is a common misconception that the Sun is yellow, or orange or even red."... now look the page header, and at the rest of the site. Gee, I wonder where students, including astronomy graduate students, might come by such misconceptions?…

I've noticed there seems to be a constant war over the main image on the Wikipedia page about the Sun. In 2013 there's no image[1]. In 2014 the Sun is yellow-orange[2]. In 2015 it's white[3]. In 2016 it's briefly orange again[4] before going back to white. At one point it's sort of eye-of-sauron[5]. Finally today there are two images, one white and one yellow-orange. Further down the page it's blue.[6] [1] https://en…

Ha, interesting. I wonder if someone's done a site where one can easily scroll back and forth in time, watching WP articles change.

Hmm, one might make a simple MVP radial gradient from a slice of that Sun_white[1] image.

> constant war

Well, there's varied esthetics. And misconception avoidance awareness (spotty) and prioritization (varied - some astronomy outreach knowingly does aphysical art thinking it more engaging). Wikipedia has Talk for memory - no permalinks, no "writers notebook". So content crafted with care and carelessness has similar editability. There's no "if you're going to change the Sun image, of course read the extensive easily-found backstory discussion of that" (maybe - I didn't check). When a misconception is widespread in books, editors come with book in hand. When misconceptions create confusion, errors are overlooked, and yet more misconceptions are created as people try to fill gaps, to reconcile incompatible conceptions. The Sun article's current "(its light is closer to white than yellow)" for example. So things roil. Misleadingly colored H-R diagrams providing cover for a simply broken Stellar_classification table. Errors engendering confusion, providing niches for more error. A Darwinian ecology of misconceptions, creating endless forms most wonderful. Or... well, a toxic sludge, and a tragedy of crippled human lives and potential... but that perspective can be demotivating. Science education content is really quite awesomely bad.

[1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/Sun_whit...

Re: Arecibo telescope, on the brink of collapse, will be dismantled

#295
post #187

Oh Arecibo, how I will miss thee. I had the luck to tour the observatory in the early teens with a physics conference. Someone pulled a few strings and we got the technical tour. It was amazing and full of facts, but two things still stick with me. First, Aricebo as a space observatory was a serendipitous accident. It was originally designed just to be an atmospheric observatory. The original idea and calculations fo…

That's cool as hell and why in the world are we all building stupid AI advertising platforms today?

If you change "advertising platforms" to the more fundamental "resource producer-resource consumer matching platforms" than it makes a lot of sense.

Re: Arecibo telescope, on the brink of collapse, will be dismantled

#296
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But infrastructure ages, and 60 years isn't a bad run. What comes next? Clearly there's going to be a capabilities gap for a while, but now that it's 60 years after its original design, what kind of design is going to replace it? Do we even need giant monolith dishes anymore? China already built one: https://phys.org/news/2016-07-china-world-largest-radio-tele... . Given that it's nonmilitary US government infrastr…

It wasn't nonmilitary, it's military use has just come to an end. In a small sidenote of an absolutely magnificent lecture by Steve Blank, the Secret History of Silicon Valley [0], he notes that the reason the radio telescopes were built in the 60's was because the Soviets were using air defense radars in their interiors that were hard to get information on using other methods that were available, but a few times a m…

This was a super cool talk, thanks for sharing.

Re: Arecibo telescope, on the brink of collapse, will be dismantled

#298

Does anyone know what purpose is served by the grid of concrete cylinders beneath the dish seen in this image? https://www.stlawu.edu/sites/default/files/Arecibo2013_15.jp...

They look like anchor points for small vertical cables running to the dish. I would guess to keep the dish from moving around when it's windy?

Re: Arecibo telescope, on the brink of collapse, will be dismantled

#300
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Admitting Puerto Rico as a state, thus enabling Puerto Rico to have representation in congress who could argue for more infra being built there, would likely be critical.

Yep, and removing the Jones Act which causes everything PR imports from the mainland to be dramatically more expensive is a necessary 2nd step too.

We could remove the Jones Act, causing cargo to be carried by ships with lax (affordable) regulation, or we could get a similar cost and regulation result on American ships by adjusting our regulations to worldwide norms.

It's really the same problem as regulating "dirty" and "unsafe" factories out of the USA. We don't get fantasy-world factories in the USA. We just lose jobs and all control, with the products produced in terrible conditions abroad.

So, do we want to suffer the cost of the regulations? If so, simply keep the status quo with the Jones Act. If not, then deal with the problem directly, and eviscerate the regulations that are making Americans uncompetitive.

Post reply on HN