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Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

medievalists.net

291–300 of 326 posts

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how did all that military might fare in Vietnam? How has it fared in the Middle East? Now imagine turning all that might against itself where much of the population has small arms of some sorts.

Was the US trying to tyrannically attack those places? The government had to constantly answer to it's populace for those wars; if it had to answer to no one, things may have been different.

How about Russia in Afghanistan? Surely they had much less accountability and a similar technology gap (yes, I know the US supplied the fighters with some advanced weaponry). Yet, the had the same outcome as the US.

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#292
post #134

Crossbow - armor-piercing weapon was the RPG of Middle Ages. There were constant attempts to ban crossbows. Second Lateran Council banned use of crossbow against Christians. > And Western knights did not like it. Their armor protected them from most weapons they would face with the exception of the longbow, a weapon that took years to learn and decades to master. But crossbows could slice right through the armor at g…

The tradeoffs for crossbows are not as clear as it might appear, and it took much longer for the crossbow to overtake the longbow in medieval Europe than most people imagine. Yes, crossbows have massive draw weights compared to a longbow; but this heavy weight comes with two drawbacks. First it requires a very heavy and less aerodynamically efficient bolt in order to survive the extreme acceleration; this provides plenty of close up power but means crossbow bolts lose their energy quicker over distance than a longbow. Second the reloading procedure is very slow, a crossbowman can fire about 1/6th as fast as a longbowman, which reduces volume of fire and means that the crossbowman needs some sort of cover while they look down and fiddle with their crossbow. Historically only China used the crossbow heavily, for Europe it was probably more a hunting weapon than anything else for the first ~500 years they were in the region.

The main benefit of the crossbow appears to not be penetration, but ease of use. Training a longbowman takes a lifetime (medieval English Archers had skeletal differences due to the constant training), and effectively requires handing out weapons to your peasants. This is not a good idea if your peasants are in fact, serfs. With a crossbow you can hand them out and train a soldier how to use it in a week or so, and then take the crossbows back later and not worry about them being used against you in a peasant revolt. You simply can't do this with a longbow due to the constant training they need to be effective.

> And Western knights did not like it. Their armor protected them from most weapons they would face with the exception of the longbow, a weapon that took years to learn and decades to master. But crossbows could slice right through the armor at greater range than even a longbow, and shooters could be trained in hours or days.

This description of crossbows trivially defeating armor is not true. Perhaps a crossbow could defeat cheap iron armor at close ranges, but the primary sections of high quality steel armor will be effectively immune to all projectiles; later examples were in fact actually capable of stopping bullets. The real risk was the thinner sections around the groin, shoulders, or face mask, where the armor was typically thin enough to be defeated by either bolt or arrow.

This historical account sounds a bit like a moral panic of the day, not an accurate description of the behavior of armor against crossbow bolts.

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#293
post #220
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one of the reasons the 2nd Amendment was written; to avoid tyrannical rule, and to allow the "peasants" (regular people) to revolt if a tyrant ever took power.

As a European I've always thought that this bit of US law has not aged all that well. Imagine a tyrant takes hold of the US armed forces and uses that to overthrow the rest of government so they can rule alone. The US armed forces have equipment going up to tanks, fighter jets, bombers, drones and nuclear weapons. A militia is going to struggle to field even heavy machine guns, let alone an air force. I doubt they'd…

You are thinking of a traditional force on force battle, which is not what it would be. Looking at the Taliban in Afghanistan would be a more accurate picture of how it would look. It would be an insurgency of mostly unknown members that lived with and among average citizens, as well as a larger support network of citizens that provided material support (food, equipment, medical supplies, etc) to “the cause”.

You would have a small percent of “full time” insurgents that would probably operate in rural areas of the US, in order to better hide larger equipment, but that would be the minority. Most of the time they would be avoiding conflict with military forces, only attacking vulnerable areas and forcing the military to guard everything. I remember reading that trying to surveil Afghanistan was already using the majority of the US’ aerial surveillance assets. The US is massive, with huge rural areas and tons of regular traffic to hide amongst.

A dictator would likely attempt to crush opposition with a heavy handed military response. That would likely serve in the insurgents favor, as it would turn the average citizen against the military strangers with tanks in the streets, checkpoints, and extra judiciary killings of civilians. Just look at the police protests and riots over the summer. The heavy police response stoked more anger and resolve and grew protests and people willing to provide support.

It is also worth noting that we don’t know how much of the military would fall in line with this. And even if they did, how many would secretly help the insurgency. How many insurgents would be tipped off to unguarded National Guard bases with military hardware? Do you really think the military would willingly use nukes on its own people? Bombers? Tanks? Just because the military has them, doesn’t mean they could be used effectively.

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#294

People who suggest that knights could be defeated by peasants in one-on-one or even one-on-many combat often overlook that many (or most?) knights spent their time practicing how to kill people in combat. Peasants on the other hand were busy tending to their land or cattle or doing whatever they had to survive. The modern analogy for adult peasant fighting an adult knight would be a bar fight between a random bystand…

Medieval knights were typically very trim and fit; we have existing texts extolling knights to not over eat and go outside and exercise with stones. While kings performing the role of general tended to be fat, the actual men at arms up front doing the dirty work were probably in fantastic shape. There are historical accounts of knights in armor being capable of climbing siege ladders like a pair of monkey bars while wearing their armor.

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#295

People who suggest that knights could be defeated by peasants in one-on-one or even one-on-many combat often overlook that many (or most?) knights spent their time practicing how to kill people in combat. Peasants on the other hand were busy tending to their land or cattle or doing whatever they had to survive. The modern analogy for adult peasant fighting an adult knight would be a bar fight between a random bystand…

Say hello to my little friend waves crossbow

Crossbows do not fare as effectively against plate armor as video games make you believe. They fire slowly (2rpm) and only work up close; they're only going to be effective in a mass group of crossbowmen standing in a prepared defensive position, otherwise it will be a very short and one sided battle.

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#296
post #273

In the Annals of St Bertin there's mention of an attack by the Danes (Vikings) on a region of Francia in 859 AD, where the peasants formed an association to defend themselves and fought off the Vikings, and drove them off without the assistance of the Carolingian rulers. This is reported by the Carolingians as brave but immoral, because Charlemagne had banned any such associations or militias, and military service wa…

"Peasant autonomy and self-defense of any kind could not be tolerated." In the United States, "gun control" (restrictions on gun rights) is universally classified as a liberal/left policy and the absence of "gun control" is classified as a conservative/right policy. Without entering into a discussion of these politics I would like to point out that those classifications are completely backwards. The US Second Amendme…

Frankly as an outside observer (Canada), the "right to arms" in the context of the United States seems fairly clearly to be tied to the history of slave ownership, not the revolutionary war. Raising a militia for defense in the context of the US south has pretty clear implications.

Just because there's a right to bear arms in the US doesn't mean the public there has any effective resistance against state coercion or violence. History doesn't bear that out at all. Likewise over history in countries that have no right to bear arms there have been many instances of the population resisting state coercion.

Guns are fairly easily obtained in a licensed and registered manner here in Canada and in many other countries that have large rural areas, etc. for the purpose of hunting and sport. Sure, hand guns or assault weapons, no. And yes, there are no constitutional guarantees of this. But it's mostly irrelevant because the public is on the whole supportive of the notion that guns like cars and pesticides and other things are a fairly dangerous tool where the public as a whole gains from carefully watching them.

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#297

Mindset would likely have played a big part, and battle then vs battle now were very different things. A peasant could absolutely kill a knight but probably not in battle, and the opportunity to do so would be unlikely to arise because the knight would probably not be in a position to be ambushed. For most peasantry the very thought of going after a knight would also be almost unimaginable. Seems like a not-unreasona…

That's actually why knights armor was shiny. Remember that this is before chrome and stainless steel; shiny armor means that the armor is steel and maintained at high expense. The knowledge that you've got to go against someone wearing the best armor that the era can provide is going to be a huge blow to morale.

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#298
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Peasants ate very well, they had to, in order to work the fields. If one doesn't care about the health of their workers, actually, one doesn't really need to feed them much.

If one doesn’t give a fuck then there’s also no reason to deny them either. Peasants are responsible for feeding themselves.

Perhaps my impression of the state of agricultural yields [0] and fealty payments is incorrect, but I don't think most peasants had enough food to be considered well nourished by today's standards. Sure some grew their own food, but the labor was much more involved than today and they didn't get to keep all of the food.

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture_in_the_Middle_Ages...

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#299
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't own a knife in many countries without a license What kind of bullshit propaganda is that? There isn't a single country in the world that requires a license to "own a knife". > let alone a gun. It's all tracked. There are targeted missiles, drones, autonomous guns, surveillance, radar, bombs, tear gas, tasers, tanks, bullet and knife proof clothing, exoskeleton, etc available to the knights. However, there…

You require driving license to buy knives and you can't carry them in public without a special license.

You need a driving license specifically, or just some form of photo ID?

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and you continue to avoid naming a country where this is the case?

spain, france?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knife_legislation#France

^ can't see anything other than an age restriction

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knife_legislation#Spain

^ mentions: "Civilians are prohibited from possessing knives, machetes, and other bladed weapons officially issued to the police, military, and other official authorities without a special license"

Otherwise there are laws wrt possession of certain "weapon" knifes, and carrying knifes in public; but not mere possession of ordinary knifes. It's also not clear to me it's illegal to own "weapon" knifes kept at home.

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