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Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

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Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#291
Can someone give me compelling reasons for disallowing side-loading of applications on iOS?

Hypothetically, if side-loading were to be allowed it could be buried under a configuration+confirmation flag for security reasons just like with Android or Windows 10.

Thinking more abstractly about this, I already do "sideload" iOS applications when I sign them with enterprise/developer certs and perform OTA installs from systems I control. Presumably, there is still some communication with the mothership going on (certificate revocation checks), but the principles are very similar...

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#292
post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear ya, but something smells real bad about how Epic decided to wage this war. They were clearly picking this fight, now I am not sure that was such a good idea.

It's not dissimilar to how civil disobedience in the 60s thoroughly planned and tuned for maximum PR impact. Rosa Parks went on that bus knowing she'd make a scene. Does that change the reality being uncovered?

Really? Sorry, that is not what I think of at all regarding this situation.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#293
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Exactly. Think of it this way. You manufacture product foo and it's sold to customers via some national store chain. If you anger the owners of the store chain, they can simply refuse to carry your product anymore. This happens all the time. The app store is no different. It's a national chain that Epic sells through and they've poked the bear one too many times. Lucky for Epic that it's privately held. Otherwis…

This analogy would only be valid if there were only one store chain in each region. For a better analogy, look at energy distribution, where there are rules that the monopolists have to follow.

Actually, the scenario you describe "one store chain in each reason" is a common scenario. Outside of major urban centers it's not uncommon to have a single grocery store, hardware store, etc.

Energy distribution is different because it's a government granted monopoly.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#295
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a misleading question, because on other platforms you can choose to avoid the store. That's definitely not true. You cannot run unsigned code on most video game consoles. And for PC game marketplaces, those platforms still have market power. Surely there's a big difference between being banned from Steam and being banned from the Discord Store.

Video game consoles are specialized hardware. They do one thing and they do it well. It's kind of understandable that these companies want to review anything released for those. They want to ensure that games are of high quality so as to not hurt the reputation of the platform itself. They want games to help sell consoles. And that's how video game consoles always worked. iPhones, on the other hand, are not specializ…

> They want to ensure that games are of high quality so as to not hurt the reputation of the platform itself. They want games to help sell consoles. And that's how video game consoles always worked.

And my argument is that an overall better (according to each individual buyer's preference) software experience is a major (perhaps the single largest) differentiator of iPhones over competing smartphones. This has always been a major part of Apple's marketing and indeed is the primary reason I use an iPhone. Yes, on the iPhone it's "games and other apps" instead of just games, but I don't see that being a major difference (particularly since game consoles can serve other purposes too, like media consumption and home automation).

My argument is that iPhones are and have always been essentially "the game console of smartphones" or "the appliance of smartphones." In fact, that type of description is often used both pejoratively by iPhone haters and lovingly by iPhone fans. They're simply not made for or marketed to people who want a general-purpose Unix PC with a cell phone antenna built in, even though technically they are essentially that (note, of course, that iPhones and game consoles are technically general purpose computers, but that's not really relevant).

> They're general-purpose devices at this point — both by design and by how Apple markets them. The problem is, both developers and users see the app store and its policies as a nuisance.

I strongly disagree with your impression here. My impression has been that complaints about App Store rules have overwhelmingly come from a small number of extremely large developers (unsurprisingly, developers that are big enough that they want to make a play to shift some of Apple's market power toward themselves). I don't see iPhone owners complaining about App Store rules, and I suspect one reason is that anyone who values being able to sideload any software on their smartphone has many very nice Android options.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#296

Can someone give me compelling reasons for disallowing side-loading of applications on iOS? Hypothetically, if side-loading were to be allowed it could be buried under a configuration+confirmation flag for security reasons just like with Android or Windows 10. Thinking more abstractly about this, I already do "sideload" iOS applications when I sign them with enterprise/developer certs and perform OTA installs from sy…

A single human is smart, people are stupid.

They’ll install ANYTHING, no matter how hard it is and how shady the site is. They can’t help themselves.

Then their phone is rooted by a bad actor and spreading malware. Who do they blame? Themselves? The shady site? The creator of the trojan?

Nope. Apple. They’ll shout from the rooftops how Apple ruined their life and business and remand restitution.

The easiest and most reliable way to prevent this is to lock people in a walled garden and make sure they don’t poke themselves with anything sharp. Yes, it sucks for the smart ones who know that shart things hurt, but that’s the way it’s gotta be.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it going to be called "Nintendo Switch"? Because Fortnite is on there, plays really well, and I'm not sure what Epic is going to bring to the table to outclass it.

Free games? That's what they do on PC. Nintendos biggest weakness on it's handhelds since the beginning has been almost no sales (as in Steam sales).

Nintendo never puts their games on sale but Fortnite is free, plenty of games go on sale all the time, and Epic is welcome to add to that list of free and discounted games if they're so inclined.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#298
post #162
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually when you fire a customer they can go to one of your competitors. This just proves Epic's argument. There is no competing App Store on iOS because it's not allowed. If Apple "fires" you then your users can no longer install the app onto their own phones. Imagine if Microsoft "fired" Adobe and as a result nobody could install Photoshop on Windows anymore.

Microsoft can fire game developers from Xbox.

Xbox isn't central to modern life like a smartphone is. Also, the game consoles use a razor/blades model, they're sold at a loss and make money through the sale of games. Smartphones are not sold at a loss.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#299

A lot of this feels to me like Rpic thinks they’re a bigger deal than they are. No doubt they make a lot of money, and they’ve made Apple a lot of money. I think though that their attempt to take Apple in the court of Public opinion is going to fall flat, because there are a lot more iOS users than Fortnite on iOS players.

This is all PR before Epic stops selling vbucks in-app. They can’t advertise where to buy in the app. This will get the word out that you can buy vbucks through their website.

You can't do that... Hey got taken down for exactly this.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#300
post #282
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguments of this form always rely on nebulous definitions of what counts as a "choice." Sure, if you're banned from a specific app store, you cannot use that specific app store, because that's just what is means to be banned. You can, of course, still access any other app store.

Imagine if Google decided tomorrow to ban App Stores other than Google Play Store on Android. This would mean that there's only two app stores: Apple's and Google's. Google doesn't do that because that would be an abuse of their market position and they would get rinsed in the courts. Since the same laws apply to Google as Apple, and Apple clearly has significant market power in smartphone and tablet computers, it st…

> Google doesn't do that because that would be an abuse of their market position and they would get rinsed in the courts.

Are you sure that Google doesn't do that because the Android platform is an extremely viable and lucrative alternative to iPhones, and that people who value the ability to sideload software on their smartphones flock to Android for precisely this reason?

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