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Thomas Sowell interview

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Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#291

Post by kiliantics »

francisofascii wrote: post #42
djrobstep wrote: post #12

Nonconformist is exactly how I wouldn't describe Thomas Sowell, whose economics and ideology is that of conformist conservative cliche. He's the kind of charlatan who'll tell you that property law that benefits rich folks is magical and natural but other law like taxation law is artificial regulation. I highly recommend Dean Baker's "The Conservative Nanny State" for a good debunking of this nonsense.

Any other book recommendations for a counter to Sowell's Basic Economics? It would be a good exercise to read his book and an alternative.

Or if you read the debunking book first, then you won't have to waste your time with his book, since you'll understand the crux of the argument and why it's wrong.

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#292

Post by tptacek »

It's difficult for me to come up with a charitable reason why Sowell, an arch-conservative, is somehow interesting to HN (and, to be fair, I'd say the same thing about a sudden surge in interest in Brad DeLong or Matt Bruenig), or why we'd vote City-Journal, the house organ of the Manhattan Institute, to the front page. I think it's especially dicey given the climate.

If you're curious about Sowell, some policy positions worth noting: opposition to marriage equality on the basis of heterosexual marriage protecting women from the impact of their declining physical appearance as they age, full-throated support for the Iraq war, repeated comparisons of Barack Obama to Adolph Hitler, a spicy "Brown v. Board of Education was decided wrongly" take, opposition to criminal justice reform and particularly decarceration, support for Donald Trump in 2016 (and after), and opposition to the building of mosques.

It's not that these positions are beyond the pale (well: the mosque thing is), but rather that they're cut directly out of the coupon book of 1990s conservative think-tankism. Many dozens of public intellectuals held (and still hold) this same revanchist culture war portfolio of positions. Why is Sowell, long retired, so enthusiastically trotted out?

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#293

Post by _fq4v »

deiznof wrote: post #201
tathougies wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to redlining, sowell directly addresses it in in Vision of the Anointed. He points out that the kinds of houses blacks tend to purchase tends to be ignored in studies that find widespread discrimination. For example blacks are much more likely to want to buy multi family homes. The income and other requirements for these are much stricter which is why they are denied loans more often. Moreover, he point…

>He then shows data that the anti discrimination legislation increased black default rates and questions whether you encouraging minorities to declare bankruptcy and enter financial ruin is really something to be desired. Sowell talked about the CRA and was proven wrong by multiple studies, like this one, which has a section dedicated to how the CRA wasn't a problem: https://www.responsiblelending.org/mortgage-lendin…

> Stop the Sowell worship. Please, internet, for the love of god. He will always talk about how everything that democrats do is bad and everything conservatives do is good. He isn't right on everything all the time.

Stop the bad-faith discussion. I never 'worshipped' Sowell. The commenter above claimed that Sowell has not grappled with various studies that show various racial disparities. I've read his works, and Sowell indeed does directly confront these studies, so to say he is ignoring evidence is wrong.

Whether or not Sowell is right is not really up for discussion. What was being discussed is whether Sowell acknowledges studies on topics he is interested in. Indeed he does, and he finds issues in many studies as well as other studies that have remained mostly unacknowledged by academia.

> He isn't right on everything all the time.

This is a ridiculous standard to judge anyone by. No one is right all the time. Stop changing the goalposts.

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#294

Post by JungleGymSam »

deiznof wrote: post #17

His economics are sound, but I often find that his takes on social issues are extremely reductionist. His social views a lot of the time are just standard conservative views (and wrong IMO), I wish he wasn't being praised for that. One example being his view on systemic racism, which he described as: “It does remind me of the propaganda tactics of Joseph Goebbels in the age of the Nazis, in which he was supposed to h…

Everything you've said has demonstrated that you're _choosing_ not to understand, or agree with, his arguments rather than disagreeing with them through counter arguments and evidence.

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#297

Post by deadgunslinger »

SiFiPi wrote: post #140
claudiawerner wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rothbard (and later Mises) are both on my reading list, I'm nothing if not open-minded. Thanks.

At the end of the day, when it comes to Ludwig von Mises, it's a question of whether or not you believe humans have free will. If you've studied long enough to become a neurologist, you find that free will is laughable.

Do people that have studied long enough to become a neurologist, find this laughable out of their own free will?

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#298

Post by NateEag »

jahaja wrote: post #235
NateEag wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is whether he broke a solemn vow irrelevant to assessing him? Especially if it purportedly happened multiple times, and the religion he preached condemns that behavior so thoroughly?

Because his "religious points"-score is unrelated to his universal message and the moral panic of it is thoroughly outdated.

This is not about whether he agrees with me (or anyone else).

It's about whether he practices what he preaches.

No one is perfect, but it's unwise to trust people who consistently advise one behavior but do another themselves.

Also, if he promised to be faithful to his wife, and then engaged in multiple affairs, he broke a big promise multiple times.

Again, I'd say that's relevant in deciding how much he should be trusted.

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#299

Post by _fq4v »

tptacek wrote: post #292

It's difficult for me to come up with a charitable reason why Sowell, an arch-conservative, is somehow interesting to HN (and, to be fair, I'd say the same thing about a sudden surge in interest in Brad DeLong or Matt Bruenig), or why we'd vote City-Journal, the house organ of the Manhattan Institute, to the front page. I think it's especially dicey given the climate. If you're curious about Sowell, some policy posit…

> support for Donald Trump in 2016 (and after)

Um no.. Sowell endorsed Ted Cruz in the primaries and wrote quite the scathing critique of Donald Trump:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/02/16/traged...

In Sowell's own words:

> Some seem to think that Donald Trump's lead in the polls and in the New Hampshire primary make him the most electable candidate, even if he often acts like an overgrown spoiled brat.

Secondly:

> opposition to criminal justice reform and particularly decarceration,

is a common position amongst blacks in America. Many civil rights advocates fought for tougher criminal sentencing in the 80s and 90s, including many in Congress, such as Charlie Rangel. In this regard, Sowell's position is more in line with the views of African Americans of a certain age, instead of his conservative beliefs (recall, many libertarians were against the war on drugs: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/praise-imp...)

> a spicy "Brown v. Board of Education was decided wrongly" take

Here is Sowell's opinion: http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/5160. As someone who himself went to a segregated school, I feel he is entitled to his opinion on whether or not the children who went there feel inferior, which is the reasoning behind Warren's majority opinion. That being said, Sowell is extremely pro-school-choice and generally against publicly run schools, so in Sowell's America schools would have been naturally desegregated due to market forces.

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#300

Post by SantalBlush »

harshreality wrote: post #279
SantalBlush wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s a formula for poisoning the well. First, make vague complaints about conformism and “cancel culture.” Then, anyone who disagrees with you from that point must clearly be a conformist who approves of cancel culture.

Vague? First of all, we can omit anything dealing with real sexual harassment, abuse, or obvious discrimination by people in power; although I think the social witch hunt phenomenon of things like #metoo is problematic, I'm not going to defend any of the people caught up in that kind of thing. So I think it's fair to exclude people like Lawrence Krauss, Louis CK, and definitely people like Harvey Weinstein. That leav…

This diatribe has nothing to do with what we’re discussing.
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