Earlier quoted context omitted.
US patent laws sensibly state that only individuals, not corporations, may be awarded patents. Unfortunately, most companies require that any patent awarded to an engineer in their employ is automatically assigned to the company. Get rid of that loophole and employees will be able to license their patents as they see fit. Of course this is fraught with practical difficulties, but some kind of compromise could be reac…
Do you really want to try to get individual licenses from every single person who worked on video codecs from in the last 20 years so you can legally compress video?
H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC)
291–300 of 435 posts
Re: H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC)
#292Earlier quoted context omitted.
How does x264 etc get away with it?
They are compliant with MPEG patent licenses - they distribute source code you have to compile yourself and for non-commercial use. If you build x264 or other open source implementation of h.264/h.265, and embed it for example in commercial video conferencing software/appliance, you have to pay patent licensing fees for that product . It's also why Firefox downloads a blob from Cisco to handle MPEG-4 video - Cisco co…
Re: H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC)
#293Earlier quoted context omitted.
From what I've heard (would love to hear more expertise on this), it's incredibly hard to invent a new video compression algorithm without breaking an existing set of patents, and there's also no easy way to even know whether you're breaking anything as you develop the algo. Thus the situation we're in is not that it's too hard to develop better codecs, but that you've very disincentivized to do so.
Which then begs the question - why are video compression standards developed in the US at all? MPEG is obviously US based but Xiph is also a US nonprofit. The software patents should be hugely crippling the ability for Americans to develop competitive video codecs when every other nation doesn't have such nonsense. Why hasn't Europe invested in and developed better codecs that combine the techniques impossible to mix…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_Picture_Experts_Group
The article we are all commenting on is by a German research organization that has been a major contributor to video coding standards.
Perhaps you're confused by the patent issue? European companies are happy to file for US patents and collect the money.
Re: H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC)
#294Question is, how does it compare to AV1?
I guess only time will tell. AV1 is supposed to be 30% better than HEVC and they claim H.266 is 50% better than HECV. This would mean that H.266 is roughly 30% better than AV1. By better I'm always referring to the bandwidth/space needed. But take this with more than a grain of salt since bandwidth/space are only one of many things that matter and also these comparisons are dependent on so many things like resolution…
Re: H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC)
#295Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know much about H.266, but some of the advances in H.265 depended on players having enough RAM to hold a bunch of previous decoded frames, so they could be referred to by later compressed data. Newer codecs tend to have a lot more options for the encoder to tune, so they need a combination of faster CPUs and smarter heuristics to explore the space of possible encodings quickly.
I wonder if instead of heuristics, machine learning could be used to figure out the best parameters.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_learning_super_sampling
Re: H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC)
#296It's interesting that they are able to continue improving video compression. You'd think that it would have all been figured out by now. Is this continued improvement related to the improvement of technology? Or just coincidental? Like, why couldn't have H.266 been invented 30 years ago? Is it because the computers back in the day wouldn't have been fast enough to realistically use it? Do we have algorithms today tha…
Video compression is a calculus of IO capacity, memory, and algorithmic complexity. Take the MPEG-1 codec for instance, it was new about 30 years ago. While today most people think of MPEG-1 videos as low quality the spec provides the ability to handle bit rates up to 100Mb/s and resolutions up to 4095x4095. That was way higher than the hardware of the time supported. One of MPEG-1's design goals was to get VHS-quali…
Re: H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC)
#297It's interesting that they are able to continue improving video compression. You'd think that it would have all been figured out by now. Is this continued improvement related to the improvement of technology? Or just coincidental? Like, why couldn't have H.266 been invented 30 years ago? Is it because the computers back in the day wouldn't have been fast enough to realistically use it? Do we have algorithms today tha…
TL;DR: it's partly because we're using higher video resolutions. A non-negligible part of the improvement stems from adapting existing algorithms to the now-doubled-resolution.
Almost all video compression standards split the input frame into fixed-size square blocks, aka "macroblocks". To put it simply, the macroblock is the coarsest granularity level at which compression happens.
- H.264 and MPEG-2 Video use 16x16 macroblocks (ignoring MBAFF).
- H.265 use configurable quad-tree-like macroblocks, with a frame-level configurable size up to 64x64.
- AV1 makes this block-size configurable up to 128x128.
Which means:
Compression to H.264 a SD video (720x576, used by DVDs) results in 1620 macroblocks/frame.
Compressing to H.265 a HD video (1920x1080) results in at least 506 macroblocks/frame.
Compressing to AV1 a 4K video (3840x2160) results in at least 506 macroblocks/frame.
But compressing to H.264 a 4K video (3840x2160) will result in 32400 macroblocks/frame.
The problem is, there are constant bitcosts per-macroblock ((mostly) regardless of the input picture). So using H.264 to compress 4K video will be inefficient.
When you take an old compression standard to encode recent-resolution content, you're using the compression standard outside of the resolution domain for which it was optimized.
> Is this continued improvement related to the improvement of technology? Or just coincidental?
Of course, there also "real" improvements (in the sense "qualitative improvements that would have benefited to compression old video resolutions, if only we had invented them sooner").
For example:
- the context-adaptive arithmetic coding from H.264, which is a net improvement over classic variable-length huffman coding used by MPEG-2 (and H.264 baseline profile).
- the entropy coding used by AV1, which is a net improvement over H.264's CABAC.
- integer DCT (introduced by H.264), which allow bit-accuracy checking and way lot easier and smaller hardware implementations (compared to floating point DCT that is used by MPEG2).
- loop filters: H.264 pioneered the idea of a normative post-processing step, whose output could be used to predict next frames. H.264 had 1 loop filter ("deblocking"). HEVC had 2 loop filters: "deblocking" and "SAO". AV1 has 4 loop filters.
All of these a real improvements, brought to us by time, and extremely clever and dedicated people. However, the compression gains of these improvements are nowhere near the "50% less bitrate" that is used to sell each new advanced-high-efficiency-versatile-nextgen video codec. Without increasing - a lot - the frame resolution, selling a new video compression standard will be a lot harder.
Besides, now that the resolutions seems to have settled up around 4K/8K (and that "high definition" has become the lowest resolution we might have to deal with :D), things are going to get interesting ... provided that we don't start playing the same game with framerates!
Re: H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC)
#298Earlier quoted context omitted.
So compressing a 1080p video with H266 will not result in similar file size/quality improvements as a 4k video? How much are we looking at for 1080p, 10%?
>How much are we looking at for 1080p, 10%? We don't know yet. There are no public technical details (that I know of) for H266 yet, but if I recall H265 gave the same 50% reduction in bandwidth claims, and for years people stuck with H264, because it was higher quality due to dropping off less subtle parts of the video you really want to see. Only in the last couple of years has H265 really started to become embraced…
Encoder maturity is also a big factor: when H.265 first came out, people were comparing the very mature tools like x264 to the first software encoders which might have had bugs which could affect quality and were definitely less polished. It especially takes time for people to polish those tools and develop good settings for various content types.
Re: H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC)
#299It's interesting that they are able to continue improving video compression. You'd think that it would have all been figured out by now. Is this continued improvement related to the improvement of technology? Or just coincidental? Like, why couldn't have H.266 been invented 30 years ago? Is it because the computers back in the day wouldn't have been fast enough to realistically use it? Do we have algorithms today tha…
In the mid '90s, PCs often weren't fast enough to decode DVDs, which were typically 720x480 24FPS MPEG2. DVD drives were often shipped with accelerator cards that decoded MPEG2 in hardware. I had one. My netbook is many orders of magnitude faster than my old Pentium Pro. But it's not fast enough to decode 1080p 30fps H.265 or VP9 in software. It must decode VP9/H.265 on the GPU or not at all. MPEG2 is trivial to decode by comparison. I would expect a typical desktop PC of the mid '90s to take seconds to decode a frame of H.265, if it even had enough RAM to be able to do it at all.
It's an engineering tradeoff between compression efficiency of the codec and the price of the hardware which is required to execute it. If a chip which is capable of decoding the old standard costs $8, and a chip which is capable of decoding the new standard costs $9, sure, the new standard will get lots of adoption. But if a chip which is capable of decoding the new standard costs $90, lots of vendors will balk.
Re: H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC)
#300Earlier quoted context omitted.
Another way if saying it is that compression is understanding.
End-credits are just text. So it should be possible to put it through OCR and save only text, positions, and fonts. And the text is also possible to compress with a dictionary.
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/A-Means-for-Achieving-...