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Wisconsin Supreme Court strikes down stay-at-home order that closed businesses

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Re: Wisconsin Supreme Court strikes down stay-at-home order that closed businesses

#291

Post by dtwest »

2rsf wrote: post #288
dtwest wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden has 342 COVID deaths per million. The US has 254 deaths per million. Germany is doing better, but the rest of Western Europe has much higher rates of death than the US. There seems to be a myth going around that Europe is handling this better than the US and the statistics don't really support that claim. If you have to bash Golden Corral to make your claim, you're probably a bit biased against Americans. That…

Why do you compare almost an entire continent to one country ? why not compare Sweden to NYC ? Sweden is handling it, not great but not terrible and so is the US and many other countries. On top of that there is a lot that we don't understand, for example why do many Mediterranean countries has low death rate even though the sick count is not low ?

How about we compare Wisconsin to Sweden? The article is about Wisconsin.

Wisconsin (pop 5.8 mil, 10.6k cases, 418 deaths). Sweden (pop 10.2 mil, 27.9k cases, 3460 deaths).

Re: Wisconsin Supreme Court strikes down stay-at-home order that closed businesses

#292

Post by CathedralBorrow »

dtwest wrote: post #285
techsupporter wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd still much rather live in America and get coronavirus rather than live in China and get black-bagged someday because of my refusal to take authorities seriously. At the risk of potentially misunderstanding what you meant, there's a yawning chasm between "freedom to die from COVID-19 because public health orders are affronts to liberty" and "extra-judicially kidnapped by one's own government." I'd much rather li…

Sweden has 342 COVID deaths per million. The US has 254 deaths per million. Germany is doing better, but the rest of Western Europe has much higher rates of death than the US. There seems to be a myth going around that Europe is handling this better than the US and the statistics don't really support that claim. If you have to bash Golden Corral to make your claim, you're probably a bit biased against Americans. That…

> There seems to be a myth going around that Europe is handling this better than the US and the statistics don't really support that claim.

Do you mind showing your work? What do the statistics say about Europe vs. US? I see you mentioned Sweden and Germany but Europe has many more countries than those two.

Re: Wisconsin Supreme Court strikes down stay-at-home order that closed businesses

#293

Post by throwaway_pdp09 »

r_c_a_d wrote: post #279
throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will judge a thing on it's merits. I will judge a government by how it behaves, not by my preferred political party. So... in the UK we have the Daily Briefings about covid. Each time I listen to it I hear politicians (they take it in turns) to come out and give us a fucking performance, projecting their voice, projecting (they think) 'calm' and 'competent' and 'in charge of it all' while they spew words for 15 or…

I think the daily briefings are good. It's not just a politician talking; it's a politician flanked by two scientists or public health experts. The politician explains what is going on and the experts explain why, with data. This is the first time in my life I can remember politicians so publicly deferring to experts with evidence.

I didn't mention the scientists because I'm not criticising them.

The only reason politicians are deferring to experts is they've realised experts are actually useful whereas before they didn't like them (something about the time for experts is over, something like that, can anyone recall?)

Conversely you haven't touched on the fact that the buggers are constantly spinning, deferring blame for not getting enough PPE, plain deceit about the number of tests done etc.

The UK has not done well. That was avoidable. If you defend that, you let the responsible ones off the hook and they will do it again.

Re: Wisconsin Supreme Court strikes down stay-at-home order that closed businesses

#294

Post by [deleted] »

threeseed wrote: post #260
pochamago wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like there are a lot of pandemic relevant factors that are pretty different. 25m people vs 300m. Island nation, less international travelers, very different climate during the opposite season.

a) Is Canada and Mexico affecting or is somehow responsible for the disastrous way that the US is handling COVID-19 ? Otherwise it’s a moot point. b) Number of international travellers is irrelevant given that the policy in Australia was to quarantine ALL visitors for 14 days. Same policy that the UK has now adopted and you can’t argue that they don’t have a lot of international travellers. Again it is simply bad pol…

[deleted]

Re: Wisconsin Supreme Court strikes down stay-at-home order that closed businesses

#295

Post by akhilcacharya »

roenxi wrote: post #265
techsupporter wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd still much rather live in America and get coronavirus rather than live in China and get black-bagged someday because of my refusal to take authorities seriously. At the risk of potentially misunderstanding what you meant, there's a yawning chasm between "freedom to die from COVID-19 because public health orders are affronts to liberty" and "extra-judicially kidnapped by one's own government." I'd much rather li…

> I'd much rather live in Sweden or Germany, where people have sufficient trust in their government... I'm a bit hesitant to compare to either of them because I can't read the local news. That being said, didn't Sweden go with a lockdown-lite policy? The Sweedes do have the freedom to die from COVID-19 because public health orders are affronts to their liberty. EDIT And the lockdowns are threatening something like 26…

Demand isn’t going to go up magically because of reopening. I’m not seeing much evidence for pent up demand outside of hair cuts, which are not exactly essential

Re: Wisconsin Supreme Court strikes down stay-at-home order that closed businesses

#296

Post by dtwest »

CathedralBorrow wrote: post #292
dtwest wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden has 342 COVID deaths per million. The US has 254 deaths per million. Germany is doing better, but the rest of Western Europe has much higher rates of death than the US. There seems to be a myth going around that Europe is handling this better than the US and the statistics don't really support that claim. If you have to bash Golden Corral to make your claim, you're probably a bit biased against Americans. That…

> There seems to be a myth going around that Europe is handling this better than the US and the statistics don't really support that claim. Do you mind showing your work? What do the statistics say about Europe vs. US? I see you mentioned Sweden and Germany but Europe has many more countries than those two.

If you add together UK, Spain, and Italy they have more deaths than the US as a whole.

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data

Re: Wisconsin Supreme Court strikes down stay-at-home order that closed businesses

#297

Post by 101404 »

sandworm101 wrote: post #128

This is where culture really matters. Almost every jurisdiction in the western world has faced this issue. Governments are issuing orders that, when push comes to shove, might not be 100% legitimate in the eyes of a court. In most countries that hasn't mattered. People acknowledge the covid problem and are obeying the "orders" despite them, perhaps, not having legal teeth. This requires trust. Like the current politi…

You are wrong when you think that is just the US and everywhere else people trust their govs. Here in Germany, courts have ordered state govs to loosen certain restrictions too.

Also interesting how you lament the divide, and then go ahead and only blame one side for everything. Oh well.

Re: Wisconsin Supreme Court strikes down stay-at-home order that closed businesses

#298

Post by CathedralBorrow »

dtwest wrote: post #296
CathedralBorrow wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There seems to be a myth going around that Europe is handling this better than the US and the statistics don't really support that claim. Do you mind showing your work? What do the statistics say about Europe vs. US? I see you mentioned Sweden and Germany but Europe has many more countries than those two.

If you add together UK, Spain, and Italy they have more deaths than the US as a whole. https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data

[Removed due to lack of civility]

Re: Wisconsin Supreme Court strikes down stay-at-home order that closed businesses

#299

Post by 101404 »

dtwest wrote: post #285
techsupporter wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd still much rather live in America and get coronavirus rather than live in China and get black-bagged someday because of my refusal to take authorities seriously. At the risk of potentially misunderstanding what you meant, there's a yawning chasm between "freedom to die from COVID-19 because public health orders are affronts to liberty" and "extra-judicially kidnapped by one's own government." I'd much rather li…

Sweden has 342 COVID deaths per million. The US has 254 deaths per million. Germany is doing better, but the rest of Western Europe has much higher rates of death than the US. There seems to be a myth going around that Europe is handling this better than the US and the statistics don't really support that claim. If you have to bash Golden Corral to make your claim, you're probably a bit biased against Americans. That…

Yep. But Sweden is run by an ultra leftist government, so if course it is not criticised.

But the same lies about "the US is doing worse" are told here in Europe as well. Just need to look to the stats, do the sum, and suddenly the US and EU are about the same.

Oh well, modern journalism is about clicks, not facts, unfortunately.

Re: Wisconsin Supreme Court strikes down stay-at-home order that closed businesses

#300

Post by dtwest »

threeseed wrote: post #228
roenxi wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The people don't obey the "orders" nor follow advice. Then they wrap themselves in the flag and actively work against the measures in the name of freedom. That cultural chicken has now come home to roost. That cultural chicken is still a massive net win; I'd still much rather live in America and get coronavirus rather than live in China and get black-bagged someday because of my refusal to take authorities seriousl…

How about one of the most similar countries to the US ? Australian deaths per million = 3.92 US deaths per million = 228.5 And the US number is likely to go to 500 in the next two months whilst in some Australia states it looks like COVID-19 is fully eradicated.

And another similar country:

UK deaths per million = 488

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