Angular 9.0 • Hacker News Board

Re: Angular 9.0

#291

Post by hmcdona1 » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 10:13 PM UTC

dragonsh wrote: post #175

crubier wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, the web apps I wrote in 2014 in react still work flawlessly. Join us, you’ll enjoy the ride!

On HN in general there is a disdain for anything other than react, probably more people of Facebook generation and admiration of it's technology like open graph, react and few other products. Based on personal usage of React, it's no easier than angular or any JS based framework like Vue (which in my view more sensible than react). You add state management, templates, router and 1000's of npm packages to do anything…

Although Ivy will bring nice improvements all around, you won't see the 12kb bundle sizes you are talking about in this initial release of Ivy. `renderComponent` is the key that will enable that down the road in some fashion (you can play with it now), but I appreciate the teams approach to easing the framework into major changes like that.

Re: Angular 9.0

#292

Post by hmcdona1 » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 10:27 PM UTC

gridlockd wrote: post #274

stringyham wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that angular apps written in 2014 would not still be working?

I don't think so, the point is that Angular breaks user code often, whereas React rarely does. An Angular 2+ app built in 2016 (when Angular 2 came out) wouldn't build anymore. An Angular 1 app didn't even need a build step, so that would probably still work fine.

lol it would work fine. I've had a joke app running Angular 2.0 in production for years. The code doesn't just expire and break. If you upgrade to Angular 8 in your package.json without running the upgrade schematics, yes it will break...because there were breaking changes.

In 2016 React was on version 14. Are you telling me that from version 14 to 16.12 React has had ZERO breaking changes? Because they definitely haven't. That ecosystem has also changed recommended patterns countless times. They just choose to leave a lot of the old implementation options around if they can while Angular as a frameworks tends to be more opinionated.

Same goes for any library or framework across major versions...

Re: Angular 9.0

#293

Post by foota » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 11:08 PM UTC

ng12 wrote: post #53

ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what's the benefit of more complex ones like react's?

By choosing React I'm optimizing for my time. I'll always add a framework that adds a tiny performance overhead if it means I can develop and maintain features easier. That said -- performance characteristics like this are rarely interesting to me. The vast majority of "performance issues" I've encountered have to do with high-level architecture and/or network issues. I've never given up on a framework because it cou…

I was surprised by the delay though, 500 ms for swapping nodes?

Re: Angular 9.0

#294

Post by IggleSniggle » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 12:54 AM UTC

ng12 wrote: post #31

pacala wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Angular: Learn about property binding, event binding, pipes, templates, views, metadata, attribute directives, structural directives, services, modules, components, injectors. React: Write a function that generates a piece of HTML. Use standard event handlers to manage user interactions. Update state via setState methods. Ship it.

The first time I saw this in Angular's material implementation I was completely floored: https://material.angular.io/components/dialog/overview#shari... The method for passing data to a dialog component is to import a magic constant and inject a data field into it's constructor? It's a completely over-engineered, nonsensical solution for a problem that doesn't even exist in React. There's so much stuff you have to be…

The last time I looked at Angular Material was quite some time ago, but at the time I was really surprised because it didn't follow the conventions established in the docs, and the conventions it did use seemed nonsensical given the design of the Angular framework.

I can only guess that "same team" was a design-centric subteam for Angular while the engineering-centric team worked on the framework/documentation itself, or that Angular Material was under pressure to get implemented before all the best practices were established and by then they were stuck with the API.

Re: Angular 9.0

#295

Post by IggleSniggle » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 1:06 AM UTC

kumarvvr wrote: post #81

ENGNR wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It reminds me of the whole .NET ecosystem. All of these custom magical special ways to do everything, compared to ‘dumb’ setups like node/ruby/go where the actual logic is just right there in front of you And every release .NET just keeps moving closer to the dumb systems. Simple and raw is good, keep the magic away

I am really glad there are other people who think this way. I am experienced with Python/JS/Ruby web app development models and recently had a look at ASP.NET Core web api projects. The amount of complexity is mind boggling. I mean, look at Flask in Python. Or even Expressjs in Node, why can't Microsoft come up with a simple framework that can run well on the .NET runtime? I am a huge fan of C#, having used it for De…

Ah, yes, expressjs, or as I like to call it, "the mutation ecosystem," where who knows what middleware has mutated which object in which way, and whether any state has leaked or whether any assumptions about control flow will actually hold true. Where it's common to see callbacks, streams, Promises, generators, and async/await patterns all thrown together in a mishmash that requires continuous syntactical context-switching.

Honestly I'd rather develop in vanilla NodeJS where the approach is at least consistent, than in the Express ecosystem where sure your problems may have been solved 1000 different ways already but where none of them really fit what you want to do, and where there are many layers of hidden incompatibility that are going to require you to make adapters for each library anyway.

Re: Angular 9.0

#296

Post by kroltan » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 1:13 AM UTC

brailsafe wrote: post #158

kroltan wrote: post #34

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I have found good success with React + RxJS, in fact. They have some overlap, but with the benefit of interop outside React, and Rx is excellent at both message-passing-style events, as well as general-purpose "data binding". And the total load is still in my perspective smaller than Angular. I have never even casually used Vue (I've since switched to gamedev as a profession), so I cannot comment on it, but from a cu…

That's a curious suggestion. I've never taken a serious look at RxJs, but I've used obsevables in android so might do that. Vue is like React but just enough separation to get all the benefits that I find in composition as well as the templating and stuff from Angular. How did you make the switch to game dev?

> How did you make the switch to game dev?

I've always had gamedev as a goal, and since 2012 participated in "game jams", which are basically make-a-game hackathons; as well as making free web games/prototypes. The industry is very portfolio-focused.

Mostly did webdev as a way of supporting myself until I got a gamedev job (but I like doing webdev too). I currently work at a company that makes corporate/educational games, but am collecting more experience to be more competitive on the actual entertainment industry. Which is a bit more challenging given I'm based in Brazil.

That being said, it's much easier to "switch careers" when you're 22 and it barely started!

Re: Angular 9.0

#297

Post by IggleSniggle » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 1:14 AM UTC

kroltan wrote: post #34

brailsafe wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's pretty well correct, but my preference has been the opposite in terms of more concepts vs cognitive complexity. I find that to do the same stuff with react and redux and so on, you end up decoupling and abstracting in such a way that the 5 or concepts in something like Angular or Vue end up being a more manageable mental model. In the sense that the main purpose of React is lost in the weeds of trying…

I have found good success with React + RxJS, in fact. They have some overlap, but with the benefit of interop outside React, and Rx is excellent at both message-passing-style events, as well as general-purpose "data binding". And the total load is still in my perspective smaller than Angular. I have never even casually used Vue (I've since switched to gamedev as a profession), so I cannot comment on it, but from a cu…

My favorite things about Angular were it's choice to use TypeScript, RxJS for state, CSS-in-JS-like, and Dependency Injection. I'm glad I learned Angular to be exposed to all those choices.

My favorite things about React were JSX and FP.

Seems like you've found a good way to have it all.

Re: Angular 9.0

#298

Post by ChicagoDave » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 5:05 AM UTC

mateuszf wrote: post #206

qwerty456127 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't opinionated and professionally engineered structure mean "better"? Clearly most of the JS coders don't have expertise sufficient to engineer their structures professionally on their own - isn't it better to embrace a professionally engineered structure done for you for free?

> Doesn't opinionated and professionally engineered structure mean "better"? No, if it's overengineered.

If you have a corporate web app the connects to dozens of secure services, an opinionated framework specifically designed to manage that well is not “over engineered”.

Conversely, if your web app has one api to call, you may find an opinionated framework to be a rocket engine where only a lawn mower engine is required.

Re: Angular 9.0

#299

Post by ChicagoDave » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 5:07 AM UTC

qwerty456127 wrote: post #188

ChicagoDave wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opinionated (professionally engineered structure) vs. Simple template system. There’s no good or bad. As in any architectural adoption, it should’ve based on your team’s capabilities and support capabilities. Experience matters too. There are good reasons to use either platform.

Doesn't opinionated and professionally engineered structure mean "better"? Clearly most of the JS coders don't have expertise sufficient to engineer their structures professionally on their own - isn't it better to embrace a professionally engineered structure done for you for free?

No. It means suitable to larger complex systems. Possibly unnecessary for smaller projects.

Re: Angular 9.0

#300

Post by orange8 » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 7:41 AM UTC

pier25 wrote: post #266

orange8 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

haha! Former hotshot Flash ActionScript 3 Ninja Developer reporting for duty as requested. Seriously though, JSX and TypeScript are nothing new. Both were part of ActionScript 3, a big language backed by a powerful company (Adobe). 15 years later, nobody even remembers it existed. How am I still making a comfortable living coding today? By not getting too attached to any language or framework... they are all just too…

Huh? AS3 had XML integrated into it? I remember E4X and Flex but not a JSX like syntax.

It wasn't exactly like JSX, more powerful as the XML was just another program data type to work with like strings and arrays.