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Tesla Financial Results 2019 Q4

ir.tesla.com

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Re: Tesla Financial Results 2019 Q4

#291

Post by zaroth »

xkjkls wrote: post #245
zaroth wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact, Deliveries exceeded Production in Q4, Q3, and Q2, and fell short of production by 14,000 vehicles in Q1 2019. [1] - https://ir.tesla.com/news-releases/news-release-details/tesl... [2] - https://ir.tesla.com/news-releases/news-release-details/tesl... [3] - https://ir.tesla.com/news-releases/news-release-details/tesl... [4] - https://ir.tesla.com/news-releases/news-release-details/tesl...

Extraordinarily strange, given that inventories haven’t changed to near the same degree.

I’m sorry but that is also not true. Inventory is reported as Days of Sales, and was 30 days in Q1 and has decreased every quarter to now just 11 days of sales.

Re: Tesla Financial Results 2019 Q4

#292

Post by Kbelicius »

chemmail wrote: post #241
40acres wrote: post #109

The bull case for Tesla is clear. Aside from Nissan with the Leaf, who recently loss their galvanizing CEO and who's market cap has tanked since, what major automaker has anywhere near the success of Tesla with EV? No doubt execution has been an issue in the past, but recent sales trends, completion of gigafactory, and Chinese expansion show that they are on the right trend. Tesla's were confined to the luxury market…

The problem is that all old car manufacturers are treating EV like the enemy, which it is to their old ways. Same thing happened with Kodak. Imagine your art, your soul, your heritage of combustion engines ripped away. You spend decades, centuries even, perfecting the internal combustion engine. Your pride and joy is now obsolete. You can see why it was so hard for everyone to switch over. Almost all your cumulative…

> The problem is that all old car manufacturers are treating EV like the enemy, which it is to their old ways.

In what way are they treating EV like the enemy?

> Same thing happened with Kodak.

No it did not. What happened to Kodak was that its primary source of profit, film, was threatened by new technological developments. That is in no way comparable with the situation of car manufacturers.

> You spend decades, centuries even, perfecting the internal combustion engine. Your pride and joy is now obsolete. You can see why it was so hard for everyone to switch over.

It was hard to switch over because it was thought that it wasn't profitable. Now that it is apparent that it is profitable nobody has any problems switching over at least not any problems of the kind you are talking about.

> Almost all your cumulative knowledge, obsolete.

Almost all knowledge is obsolete... wtf. Are EVs not vehicles and haven't we been making vehicles for a long time?

> It is why Toyota, with their insanely successful Prius, who knew full an well how transformative the EV side is, dragged their heals until to this very day.

Because they were concentrating on hydrogen cars.

> Most of the Germans have delayed their EVs for mass market in the US from 2021 to 2022. Even Hyundai, who is the closets to Tesla in efficiency, is frought with delays. "We are X* we will have no problem making an EV" they said!

And how many delays did Tesla have?

Re: Tesla Financial Results 2019 Q4

#293

Post by philwelch »

nickik wrote: post #274
philwelch wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cybertruck is going to be an Edsel-type blunder if they keep pursuing it. It’s obvious that Elon is a car guy because the Tesla cars all look slick and sporty but he’s obviously not a truck guy and I think he’s utterly misunderstood the market with Cybertruck.

Based on what? Its cheap, can pull lots of stuff fast, you can plug in power tools and it has lots of storage area.

It looks stupid, the trapezoidal side walls around the truck bed actually make it much less usable, and it looks stupid.

The whole problem with eg the BMW i-Series or most other electric cars is that they are designed in a silly way that says, “look at me, I’m a weird electric car, I’m not a normal car at all, I’m willing to look like a total dork in order to virtue-signal about being eco-friendly”. Teslas just look like sports cars—except the Cybertruck’s styling is 100% “dorky virtue signal about having a weird special truck”, and truck people are even less likely than car people to put up with that.

Re: Tesla Financial Results 2019 Q4

#294

Post by blaser-waffle »

grecy wrote: post #243
beamatronic wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other car manufacturers would be smart to source their batteries from Tesla.

I doubt Tesla will sell to them, Elon has said a few times their vehicle output is constrained by how many battery cells they can make. If they sell those cells to other manufacturers, they won't be able to make so many cars themselves.

Making vehicles is hard. There are a lot of logistical and technological challenges, plus the deep penetration of cars into society means that marketing, perception, and utility are on the lips of the hyper-rich down to the common man.

With batteries... you just make batteries. With cars you have to score adequate or better in lots of different areas to be competitive.

Re: Tesla Financial Results 2019 Q4

#295

Post by IshKebab »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #162
40acres wrote: post #109

The bull case for Tesla is clear. Aside from Nissan with the Leaf, who recently loss their galvanizing CEO and who's market cap has tanked since, what major automaker has anywhere near the success of Tesla with EV? No doubt execution has been an issue in the past, but recent sales trends, completion of gigafactory, and Chinese expansion show that they are on the right trend. Tesla's were confined to the luxury market…

Other car manufacturers are missing what makes Tesla do so well. It's a lot of things, really. Range, performance, the hope of self-driving, the supercharging network (Which is much bigger than people think!), and of course, the fact that they look like normal cars. Most other EVs like the Leaf are either incredibly lacking in range and performance, or they're incredibly ugly like the BMW i3. Then you've got cars lik…

I went to a supermarket in the UK recently that had an electric car charging area, with space for around 8 cars. Guess what the maximum charging power was?

7 kW.

Seven! What is the point of that?

Re: Tesla Financial Results 2019 Q4

#296

Post by blaser-waffle »

jussij wrote: post #232
xkjkls wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla still lost $800 million this year and has never had a profitable year, on both record car sales and record regulatory credit sales. What about that indicates sustainability?

The financial results from the link don't show a $800 million loss for this year. From that document in the FINANCIAL SUMMARY section there are these quarterly profit/loss number: Income (loss) from operations Q1-2019 Q2-2019 Q3-2019 Q4-2019 -522 -167 261 359 So for the first half of the year Tesla did lose 689 million dollars. But for the whole year that was only a loss of 69 million dollars. I think what the market…

LOL, it was ONLY ~$70 million.

How does this stack up to last year, and forecasts for next year? If they were in the hole $120MM last year and now only 69, with forecasts for ~20MM or less next year then there is a clear road to profitability and I might be willing to do the Long thing.

Re: Tesla Financial Results 2019 Q4

#297

Post by Diederich »

ninth_ant wrote: post #199
40acres wrote: post #109

The bull case for Tesla is clear. Aside from Nissan with the Leaf, who recently loss their galvanizing CEO and who's market cap has tanked since, what major automaker has anywhere near the success of Tesla with EV? No doubt execution has been an issue in the past, but recent sales trends, completion of gigafactory, and Chinese expansion show that they are on the right trend. Tesla's were confined to the luxury market…

What you describe would be the “bull case” dozens of billions in valuation ago. Right now we are quite disconnected from that, in my analysis. To justify their current valuation, the “bull case” is for them to dominate the entire automative industry (not just the EV segment) and do an Amazon-like turnaround of losses into profitability. Anything short of that, their valuation is ludicrous.

Even as a long-time Tesla fan, I think their stock price is fairly excessive.

> the “bull case” is for them to dominate the entire automative industry (not just the EV segment)

Is Tesla's market valuation highest than the highest valued automakers?

Re: Tesla Financial Results 2019 Q4

#298

Post by grecy »

reitzensteinm wrote: post #272
grecy wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your mistake is in assuming that Tesla only makes cars, and the number of them they make is the only factor that goes into their valuation. They also have the world's biggest charging network, storage solutions, solar solutions and produce more batteries than virtually everyone else combined. Mercedes actually just put out a press release that said they can't build enough electric cars because they can't buil…

Can you please link me to this press release?

Press release for what?

Re: Tesla Financial Results 2019 Q4

#299

Post by natmaka »

xkjkls wrote: post #247
natmaka wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many nations solar power is subsidized, more often than not in an administratively burdening way (paperwork!), and subsidies/regulation were frequently modified, discouraging the average citizen. A prominent case is France. This is IMHO at least partly crony capitalism at work. However it is only temporary and doesn't magically suppress benefits tied to local production.

Industrial solar generally has much less maintenance costs than distributed. There’s some exceptions, Hawaii for instance, but it’s very expensive to have to constantly maintain solar panels in peoples homes in ways that industrial solar isn’t

Many setups I saw (PV) are mainly maintained by being washed by rain, and I fail to understand why the maintenance of a (non obsolete) home solar panel would be expensive (neglecting vandalism/theft)(?)

Moreover energy produced by solar panels in homes is locally consumed, therefore there is no maintenance (nor any non-neglectable cost or loss) related to distribution (they are non neglectable).

Re: Tesla Financial Results 2019 Q4

#300

Post by xkjkls »

nickik wrote: post #275
xkjkls wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much of their revenue comes from not making cars?

What is important is that they can make money from selling lots of electric cars. While the other companies get horrifying margin on their electric car and they have no clue how to make money with them.

Can they? They had a loss of $800 million in 2019, and that’s with over $500 million in regulatory credit sales boosting that. The EV market still seems like it incinerates capital
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