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Starlink Is a Big Deal

sneak.berlin

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Re: Starlink Is a Big Deal

#291

Post by dzhiurgis »

retrac wrote: post #191
gitgud wrote: post #165

> Billions of people, blocked from accessing the Internet due to lack of infrastructure or local greed or fraud related to same, are presently kept from participating in the global knowledge economy. Starlink will remedy this, to some extent. Isn't covering the world in a blanket of satellites from a single company the epitome of a global Monopoly? I'm worried about such a future controlled by SpaceX...

There are multiple competitors with similar plans on the drawing board already. And unlike with geosynchronous orbit, there's no practical limit to the number of satellites in very low-earth-orbit. If Starlink is profitable, I would fully expect multiple competing networks before long.

Competitors won't achieve until there's competition for SpaceX launch service. Bezo seems to be most ahead, but also super far from offering commercial launches.

Re: Starlink Is a Big Deal

#292

Post by oarsinsync »

allovernow wrote: post #227
oarsinsync wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Edit 2: Jesus Christ man I had no idea I was giving you my fucking address. That's a little too granular for my taste So the accuracy of the location being provided depends entirely on your device. From a website (or any other app) perspective, they simply request the client provide it's location. Now if you happen to have a strong GPS lock on your device with 5m or less accuracy, that's not something the website (…

As a matter of fact I default to explicitly turning off all location permissions. I've gone to great pains to practice clean opsec. This is effectively a forced breach. I clicked on something cool expecting to be promoted for a zip code.

For this to be a forced breach, the website must be intentionally exploiting a security issue on the device to expose exact location coordinates. If so, I’d suggest perusing the source code, as there might be bug bounty money there. Or patching your device. EDIT: to be clear, this would also be a dick move by the website author and they should be publicly shamed more than this.

Alternatively, they may be accidentally triggering a vulnerability (more bug bounty money or reasons to patch)

Alternatively, you accidentally gave the permission for location services when prompted.

Alternatively, your IP has a GeoIP location that is at / very close to your home address. If this is the case, GeoIP databases are like telephone directories of yore. Except not only are they globally public, you also cant opt out.

Sorry!

Re: Starlink Is a Big Deal

#293

Post by rkangel »

apatters wrote: post #167

Is the optimism about being able to bypass censorship really valid? SpaceX may be resistant to the censorship demands of some governments, but a lot of other things need to happen to get someone online. To begin with you need to acquire Starlink's receiver, which probably makes it inaccessible to North Koreans for example, and difficult to acquire for citizens of any country that has efficient import controls. Then y…

I agree, but for yet another reason - you legally need permission from the country to transmit in its spectrum. This is normally handled by the ITU so that there is global consistency, but that doesn't mean that a country can't withdraw its permission in some way, e.g. by leaving the ITU. There may even be less nuclear options - I'm waiting for the expert to return to the office to consult...

Re: Starlink Is a Big Deal

#294

Post by rkangel »

mch82 wrote: post #117

To me the article misses the bigger deal: SpaceX launched 60 satellites in a single launch & ~250 in ~8 months! Under 9000 satellites have ever been launched in 756 months, since 1957. That’s a launch rate increase from 12/month to over 31/month.

They've gone for a large constellation of small satellites with short lives, which is a set of design choices that all feed into each other.

Satellites are traditionally designed to last for a long time because they're so expensive to launch. As such they're also expensive to make, and it's slow to iterate on them.

Being in low-earth helps the launch cost (on top of the existing SpaceX advances). Putting out 60 per launch helps too.

Re: Starlink Is a Big Deal

#295

Post by dzhiurgis »

coding123 wrote: post #209
dwaltrip wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't the satellites in LEO only visible for a short time after sunset?

Even if astronomy isn't affected. Can you imagine a grid/net of fast moving satellites, 80,000 satellites covering the entire globe that are visible for 2 to 3 hours every night. This is the thing that creates global suicides. Mark those words. It will happen.

If this makes you so upset that you are thinking about suicides - you might be clinically depressed and I suggest you call suicide helpline.

Re: Starlink Is a Big Deal

#296

Post by rkangel »

gitgud wrote: post #165

> Billions of people, blocked from accessing the Internet due to lack of infrastructure or local greed or fraud related to same, are presently kept from participating in the global knowledge economy. Starlink will remedy this, to some extent. Isn't covering the world in a blanket of satellites from a single company the epitome of a global Monopoly? I'm worried about such a future controlled by SpaceX...

Even if it does have a monopoly on space based internet (there are some good counter-arguments in the sibling comments), that doesn't mean it has a monopoly on internet access as a whole.

Lots of us could benefit from Starlink without ever paying a subscription - just look what happened with US internet providers in cities where Google Fiber launched. Once they had some reasonable competition they suddenly discovered that they could deliver a much better quality of service. Starlink will force the wired carriers to compete properly, for maybe the first time ever.

Re: Starlink Is a Big Deal

#297

Post by dzhiurgis »

Symmetry wrote: post #100
chrispeel wrote: post #5

I'm not convinced that Starlink will provide access to the "half of the human beings (who) are not online yet." Of course that would be good, yet my guess is that Starlink will target people in developed nations who are in rural areas, or people who want low latency. Maybe Starlink could serve people w/o internet if a whole village buys a subscription, or if a cell provider uses Starlink as backhaul for voice? Still…

Their costs are mostly fixed and bandwidth is limited by the number of satellites overhead so will be as high in Mali as New York. If they want to maximize their profits they'll price their bandwidth so that they're able to supply most of the resulting demand in both places.

Ground stations are going to be wayyy cheaper in Mali

Re: Starlink Is a Big Deal

#298

Post by rkangel »

coding123 wrote: post #170

Honestly I hope someone figures out how to shoot these down. I feel like the planet isn't getting a say. In fact only a few people are getting a say that this network should even exist. Astronomy is dead. A dark sky with just stars, yeah dead.

Maybe the historical form of amateur astronomy with a telescope in the garden might die out (others have made some reasonable counter-arguments). But maybe instead, space based astronomy will become cheaper and more accessible due to the drop in launch costs? My understanding is that a lot of astronomy research (as distinct from amateur stargazing) is limited by atmospheric concerns, so maybe that would be an improvement.

Re: Starlink Is a Big Deal

#299

Post by dzhiurgis »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #15
pkolaczk wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you mean a village with just two houses, typical villages are covered by cellular networks just fine. Starlink looks like a system for people in deserts or people in third world where LTE doesn't exist. Not sure if this is big enough market.

The US DoD has paid SpaceX to proof of concept having hundreds of Mb/s of low latency connectivity in fighter aircraft. Lucrative market based on historical DoD satellite communications contracts.

It's gonna be great for their drones too. Perhaps for whole EVTOL market.

Re: Starlink Is a Big Deal

#300

Post by Hikikomori »

eqvinox wrote: post #131
Barrin92 wrote: post #10

> "Hundreds of cities and dozens of countries, fine for living but previously entirely unsuitable for a place of business, will blink from red to green on the map once Starlink goes live." this reads like a marketing piece rather than actual analysis. Throughput of a single satellite is 20Gbps. The finished constellation if I recall correctly is supposed to be about 12k satellites. So about ~250.000Gbps. So assuming…

On one hand, as other sibling posts are pointing out, you're comparing true network capacity with subscribed ("sold") capacity; those are massively different by orders of magnitude (depending on how shitty your ISP is.) On the other hand, it's far worse than "20G per satellite." Bandwidth is limited by available RF spectrum, and that's not magically gonna increase with satellite count. Best thing they can try is limi…

Products for 200G on 50Ghz channels (up to 96) have been available for some time now, so you can up your numbers quite a bit.
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