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Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

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Re: Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

#291

Post by kerkeslager »

nickelcitymario wrote: post #168
kerkeslager wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Question for you then: Are you or are you not trying to manipulate me to share your point of view? You go on after this question to explain what manipulation is, so it seems like you understand the concept, and can probably figure out how it doesn't apply to this conversation. > There's an idea out there that advertising is about selling you things regardless of whether you'd benefit from it or not. In my books, th…

First up: I just wanna say it wasn't my goal to be the defender of the ad industry. I started this comment thread to defend the idea of aspirations as a good thing. That being said: > The idea that this is you trying to go out and help people find and choose the best products for their needs is very naive. You're right, that would be naive. It's not what I said though. re: Review sites, word of mouth, contacting expe…

> First up: I just wanna say it wasn't my goal to be the defender of the ad industry. I started this comment thread to defend the idea of aspirations as a good thing.

Okay, but I wasn't really attacking aspirations, either. I've criticized "conquering desire" before on HN as leading to useless monasticism.

> re: Review sites, word of mouth, contacting experts: That's all great. But to the business owner who's wondering how they're going to make payroll 3 months from now, that's not exactly helpful. Your recommendation to them is to just sit back and hope people stumble onto what they're selling?

No, I don't have a recommendation for them. I get it, business owners are somewhat forced to advertise, because their competitors are advertising. I'm saying that we as a society should not be pretending advertising is some positive thing, we should be removing advertising from our content, our public spaces, etc.

Ultimately, this isn't necessarily bad for businesses. If advertising didn't exist and people found out about products by other means, businesses could compete on just producing the best products.

> You haven't made any attempt to present the other side of the argument either. You say I'm dishonest for presenting my clients in the best possible light, yet you also pick and choose what to present in defence of your position. I'm fine with that, but it seems to me that if you held yourself to the same standard, you'd make an effort to consider the position of all the people involved in advertising.

1. Presenting all the opinions is not the same as presenting all the facts. In fact, presenting all opinions is counterproductive to providing a well-rounded summary of the facts: if you present flat earthers on the same level as cosmologists, you're dignifying non-truth as if it were truth. I'm not obligated to state opinions like "Advertisers are just trying to help you find what you want!" because that's just a lie, and stating it alongside the truth would make them seem like equal ideas. Leaving out incorrect opinions is not the same as leaving out facts.

2. Even if you could make it stick that I'm a hypocrite, so what? Just because someone is a hypocrite doesn't mean they're wrong. That's just an ad hominem attack on me. Let's stick to debating the topic, not my character.

> In the meantime, we live in a world where advertising does exist, and therefor it's foolish not to participate in it, because doing so would give your competitors an unfair advantage.

Sure--if you're a business owner it's foolish to play by the rules when nobody else is. But as humans and members of society, not as business owners, we can strive to create a world without advertising.

Re: Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

#292

Post by taurath »

pascalxus wrote: post #199
taurath wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly, but you're also a product of an environment which values that sort of self-expression. If every time you went and hung out with your friends they shamed you, saying you look homeless, you might think differently. Its certainly a sign of maturity to not really care about those things, but depending on your life trajectory different values will hit. And clearly, a lot of people value a new iphone. OTOH - its…

It's true that newer phone used to be better than older phones. But, we're getting to the point where newer phones really aren't any better than older ones.

My new one lasts 2x as long before charging and I can take beautiful photos that aren't grainy at all like the last one. Its absolutely worth the cost for me!

Re: Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

#293

Post by tartoran »

taurath wrote: post #292
pascalxus wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true that newer phone used to be better than older phones. But, we're getting to the point where newer phones really aren't any better than older ones.

My new one lasts 2x as long before charging and I can take beautiful photos that aren't grainy at all like the last one. Its absolutely worth the cost for me!

It really depends on the type of upgrade. Of course if you have a really old phone it may be worth upgrading, but keeping up with the latest is a waste of money and energy.

Re: Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

#294

Post by tartoran »

MandieD wrote: post #233
darkarmani wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I live pretty well with a 5 year old SE. I love my SE. I really don't want a phone any bigger than the SE.

When my SE finally stopped charging and I found out that I’d missed the window for a subsidized battery, I resigned myself to Apple never introducing that SE2, and bought a used 7 to see if I could come to grips with the larger size. It’s ok, but still a bit bigger than I’d like. Several apps are now usable again, such as the DB (German railways) app, which I became really dependent on after selling my car. I can’t s…

I would say you woke from the mirage. Upgrading to the latest is almost never worth it. Use your money on things that you really need instead

Re: Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

#295

Post by asdff »

mntmoss wrote: post #281
pascalxus wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not your typical consumer. I buy the cheapest thing of each category unless there's an overwhelming reason not to. Computer: macbook pro (not because of ads but because I had to in order to develop for apple products), phone: Iphone - got it for free as a handme down from my wife. Very few of the groceries I buy have labels on them: it's all fresh fruit, veggies, things from the bulk section, almost nothing in th…

Advertising readily exploits low price consumers like you, too. First of all, they find ways to drop quality. At first they have the good deal for a limited time. This results in social proofing - good reviews and customer approvals - that theirs is the exceptional choice - quality at low price. Then they downgrade it. But because you were already buying it, you won't look the next time. Second, they find ways to eng…

I don't think everyone is fooled by these types of maneuvers. Ye olde cable bundle model isn't going to fool a truly pragmatic person, even if it manifests itself in the grocery store. The drop in quality thing is something to explicitly watch for and expect, especially when the bait and switch you describe happens routinely on sites like Amazon these days.

Once you are aware of the many different ways an ad can manifest, they become uncanny. It becomes a game to spot them, and to think about why this ad was bought to run at this particular time and place. I see that ad for california walnuts playing out in public, and it feels absolutely dystopian. I think they say "heart-heatlhy, california walnuts" about a half dozen times in the clip, like a mantra. The spell is broken if you ever read about the nut industry's water use, and connect the dots with the ever present threat of drought in california, and climate change worsening it all.

Re: Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

#296

Post by asdff »

hristov wrote: post #75

When this topic comes up I like to remind people of the brilliant and under appreciated movie Roger Dodger. The main character in it is an advertising executive and he flat out said that his job is to convince people their lives sucked. First you have to convince someone their life sucks and then it is quite easy to convince them that the latest product will improve their lives. This is the way advertising works.

Mad men is great, too; it's positioned right at the bellwether moment of market research and psychology taking over whimsy narratives in advertisement in the 1960s.

Re: Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

#297

Post by asdff »

darkarmani wrote: post #149
otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using advertising to create demand is only a tiny part of the advertising market, and arguably the worst way to spend your ad budget. Most advertising is to maintain your market share in already established and very competitive markets. E.g., Coca-Cola plastering their logo everywhere to prevent Pepsi from doing the same. It's certainly not to convince those who don't drink Coke to start doing so.

> Coca-Cola plastering their logo everywhere to prevent Pepsi from doing the same. Why would Pepsi do want to do it? Solely to prevent coca-cola from doing it? If it isn't to convince people to drink Pepsi for those who don't drink Pepsi, why would it matter if they did Pepsi instead of Coca-cola?

Because, if you glance at a pepsi logo on a billboard in the morning, you are more likely to grab a pepsi than a coke out of the cooler at the store in the afternoon. Suddenly, your eyeballs become an arms race, and here we are today.

Re: Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

#298

Post by asdff »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #101
JohnFen wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends on what mean by "status signals". If you mean attending a fancy school or owning trendy stuff, then no. Most people manage to attract mates and get business partners without doing that.

I was trying to point out the nebulousness of the term "genuine need". The fact that fancy schools and trendy stuff exist must be providing some utility. Of course, some more than others. For example, "fancy" (I assume you are referring to selective schools) provide the utility of providing an easy way to discriminate between those who have the traits to get into those schools vs those who don't. Seeing as how they h…

Let's not equate a fancy degree with a fancy car. A college education is only partially about the line you append to your resume. Working with people at the front of an intellectual field is a life changing experience that you can leverage to open far more doors than a degree ever could.

Re: Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

#299

Post by asdff »

nickelcitymario wrote: post #106
JohnFen wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've given you the knowledge of a solution to your problem. But you've given a "solution" (that involves separating me from my money) to a problem that you created in the first place. I don't see how that's a good thing. > And yet, I'm willing to bet you wouldn't consider those ads to be evil, would you? "Evil" isn't the word I'd use. "Immoral" is. If a charitable organization is using ads that are intentionally tr…

> But you've given a "solution" (that involves separating me from my money) to a problem that you created in the first place. When did I create a problem? Yes, some advertising invents nonexistent problems and I thought I was clear that this shit is evil. That's a different thing from saying "that headache you have sucks, doesn't it? here's some tylenol" > No, you wouldn't, because doing so will make people unhappy,…

Imagine being overweight and being told by an absolute stranger, "gee, you look bad. come join my gym, you'd look like this ripped guy." Prick, right?

People have dissatisfactions, but only advertisements have the audacity to point them out as a complete stranger. Even if a loved one did that, you might recoil. when people are unhappy about something, they will share it with someone they trust if they want to talk about it. Advertisements get a free pass to nose into your life and be your mother? Please.

Re: Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

#300

Post by jancsika »

7sigma wrote: post #78
eloff wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another example, Apartheid South Africa got TV in 1976, six months later the riots started, coincidence? I think as soon as black people in South Africa could see how black people in America lived, they truly realized how bad they had it. Here it contributed to the undoing of an unjust government, so it's not always a force for evil. I think the most dangerous thing to North Korea is western media. I know the South K…

I heard of a similar story from my history teacher, but with eastern block and the show Dallas. From what I remember authorities were hoping that it would show the decadence of the west, but I think people mainly saw the higher living standards.

When was this apparently being aired, and in which country?

At least in Hungary a dubbed version of Dallas was being aired in the mid 1990s well after the Berlin Wall fell.

I even remember my brother jokingly asking a Hungarian at the time if she wanted to know who shot J.R. and she answered immediately with a very loud, "no!"

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