291–300 of 342 posts
This x 1000. We need to these issues before they get to the classroom.
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> stay at home playing video games all day Playing video games is monumentally boring after a short while. I just can't understand people who disappear into them. Even the game I wrote for myself ( classicempire.com ) I rarely actually played, I'd spend my time trying to make the computer AI play better.
Many (most?) Of the time the choice isn't between video games and a fullfilling career. It's between a shitty job and games. It's very easy for me to say I would never do that, but I also have a pretty good job and a decent social life. Games also provide some sense of community that is increasingly harder to find in real life, especially if you're not successful by some metric.
I’m not sure where the games narrative comes from. From the image on top of the article?
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> Men generally have the biological need to go do and wander and discover things. I don't know whether it's hormones or what. Debate all you like elsewhere (I'm not trying to debate that point here). What an obnoxious thing to do. You know you're stating a controversial opinion, or you wouldn't have said that. You don't get to set the rules of conversation like that.
They do, actually. They're clearly trying to frame the conversation ("I'm not trying to debate that point here") and I can understand because that debate is tired and most people have dug into their positions to the point where little more interesting conversation is likely to happen. That doesn't mean we have to accept that framing. I don't really think OP was trying to be obnoxious, nor do I think calling them out…
I'd prefer just downvoting and moving on before doing that.
The article is long on detail and short on suggestions (which is understandable). However, the suggestions it does make are not obviously going to work. The men illustrated in the article do not seem incapable of work, but rather disinterested. Vocational training isn't going to fix the fact that the government benefits the article cited allows the men to stay at home playing video games all day. Most people (but esp…
I don't think the two causes listed in the article are actually the causes. I think both are yet another symptom of an underlying problem. I would argue that men doing worse in schooling is likely another symptom of the same issue. I think that the heart of the issue is that more men nowadays feel that they just don't matter. Not to society nor to anyone else. This leads to a situation where they will simply sacrific…
We automated away manliness. It's worth less these days. The least valued men are now valued even less. Frankly, I think these disaffected men should go back to the countryside where it's still relatively cheap and grown their own food and drugs. It's not economical to grow your own calories the old fashioned way, but neither is collecting welfare. And it'd be a heck of a lot gentler on the psyche to create something with your own hands. I remember Richard Feynman talking about researching topics that already had been written about just for the joy of discovery. It wasn't needed, but was done recreationally.
> Unfortunately, the two causes the article cites (dissolution of family structure and rise of single male households) are unaddressed. It's unaddressed because it's the journalist class and their kind that has waged a war against family, gender roles, gender itself and males. At least since the 90s as far as I remember, the predominant message in media is fathers are bad, males are bad and family is bad. Media has d…
The inability to understand what toxic masculinity actually is, is so very telling
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> I think that the heart of the issue is that more men nowadays feel that they just don't matter. Isn't everyone feeling this? Maybe men are feeling the ways that others have felt for a long time? I agree that the loss of privilege is definitely happening, which is honestly a good thing imo, but I'd tie this back to greater cultural unease about one's economic future more than anything else. Most of the folks I know…
> but I'd tie this back to greater cultural unease about one's economic future more than anything else. Most of the folks I know are in their 30s and don't believe they'll ever retire. >If the system is squeezing every ounce of your labor out and you're only seeing a small return on it, what's keeping you motivated? But by any metric you choose these things were worse in the past. We didn't have safety nets for the e…
In periods of increasing wealth inequality, I'd expect less class mobility and increased anxiety and hopelessness.
Combine that anxiety with climate change, political gridlock, loss of privilege, a sense that retirement will never happen, and generally feeling like your parents generation had it better... I can see why people might check out. All these things seem so systemically inevitable.
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I don't think plumbers, lineman, etc... are universally looked down on by society. Yes there are some people/communities who do, but there are also people who look down on those who have office jobs, or who do creative work (artists, actors, writers).
True, but the trades typically aren’t pushed as a viable option like “higher status” paths. For decades now, I think the system has pushed the “need” to go to college, regardless of after effects (debt, job prospects etc)
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I don't think the two causes listed in the article are actually the causes. I think both are yet another symptom of an underlying problem. I would argue that men doing worse in schooling is likely another symptom of the same issue. I think that the heart of the issue is that more men nowadays feel that they just don't matter. Not to society nor to anyone else. This leads to a situation where they will simply sacrific…
What jobs still benefit from a man's physical strength anymore? Most things that need serious brawn use 'hydraulic muscles'? Soon women won't even ask us to twist the lid off jars anymore, there will be an iRobot for that. Where are men needed these days? We automated away manliness. It's worth less these days. The least valued men are now valued even less. Frankly, I think these disaffected men should go back to the…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think the two causes listed in the article are actually the causes. I think both are yet another symptom of an underlying problem. I would argue that men doing worse in schooling is likely another symptom of the same issue. I think that the heart of the issue is that more men nowadays feel that they just don't matter. Not to society nor to anyone else. This leads to a situation where they will simply sacrific…
The dating dynamic changed too. As a man, you will be able to date if you are in the top 20% on height and general attractiveness. It wasn't always like that. In the recent past, you could have a girlfriend if you were average good looking and if you showed your worth. Good grades, good work prospects, etc. as long as you committed to a woman. That doesn't seem to work any more.
a) The reason for "... Instead we have witnessed a mass exodus of men from the workforce altogether. ..."
Is that man are looking for work that allows them to earn more than women, that would likely (or like) to date.
Women are not likely to marry/create family with man that earns (or has less earning potential) less than them.
Just as simple as that -- reasons may be deeply cultural, biological or whatever... but I believe this is to be true.
Solution:
De-urbanization/ De-metropolization of work opportunities.
Basically more gov tech, fin tech, bio tech, and other 'high-margin' business need to spread across a given country (UK, or US or whatever).
That spread will create a number of supporting job opportunities as well, that will equalize the earning potential opportunities, lower cost of living averages, create more 'geographically attractive cultural centers' and so on.
That (lowering cost of living, lowering barriers of entry into sustainable jobs, with less competition), in turn, will lower the barriers of entry into economic stability -- which is a requirement for a modern family core.
It is, actually, desirable, that one-person-income should be enough for a family of 4 (two parents and two children). Whether parents choose that or both work, simulatenously, is up to them.
Stable family creates purpose and emotional stability, necessary for healthy work ethics.
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With that said, 3 other important fed gov initiatives that will be needed
a) affordable, not necessarily free, but truly affordable health care
b) 4-day / 6 hour work week as a 'encouraged' standard.
c) equitable divorce model where man are treated using same criteria as woman (including for not just financial separation, but children custody as well).