Reasons Why Job Seekers Are Not Given Feedback • Hacker News Board

Re: Reasons Why Job Seekers Are Not Given Feedback

#291

Post by clarry » Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 2:18 PM UTC

AllegedAlec wrote: post #260

clarry wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Learn to feign enthusiasm better next time." It sounds useful and depressing at the same time.

https://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=3454

Yep. My (brief) time in the metal industry was quite different.

Nobody talked about passion and enthusiasm. Companies look for somebody to perform a job, and people with the relevant skills offer their hand. A simple, professional exchange, no cults, no kool-aid.

No "you need to be keen about learning new tech like a kid that just got out of high school, oh and you gotta be super competent with all this stuff we use because we don't have time for people to be learning things on the job, oh and you gotta be social and charming and customer focused, oh and you gotta be very enthusiastic about our company and product (actually we don't know which product or team we'll assign you to yet, but you still gotta be super enthusiastic about it), oh and you'll probably end up maintaining some terrible legacy stack that nobody else wants to touch. So, why are you applying to this job? Justify your presence! It's not like we posted about an open position, and it's not like we're constantly complaining about shortage of talent while turning people down left and right .. oh wait"

Re: Reasons Why Job Seekers Are Not Given Feedback

#292

Post by stakhanov » Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 2:23 PM UTC

crispyambulance wrote: post #281

stakhanov wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not extreme at all. Companies are treating it as a numbers game, which is part of what the article is about. The flipside of the coin is that candidates are forced into treating it as a numbers game too. For example: As a candidate you might submit a resume and get an automated "Thank you, we'll be in touch". There's a large variety of reasons why you might face a very low probability that someone will indeed be…

It's only a "numbers game" if you treat it as such by "shot-gunning" your applications. Much better to exercise your professional network (in the flesh or online). The whole point of web-based application process is to weed out as many candidates as possible. If you can skip that step and first make contact with a human, the odds are much better and it's less work and stress for everyone.

...there are plenty of situations that will render your social network useless, for example most of your network might be academics and you might have decided to leave academia. Most of your network might be in companies doing onsite-only in a geographical area you've moved away from. Most of your network might be less-well-paid than you. (So: the jobs you would want to apply for are with hiring managers that your friends don't know and have no influence over and if they did, they would use the opportunity for themselves rather than someone else). -- In my experience, networking just doesn't work as well as business school ideology would have you believe it does for various reasons that I'm going to try to sum up by quoting a Groucho Marx joke: "I'd never join a club that would have someone like me for a member."

Re: Reasons Why Job Seekers Are Not Given Feedback

#293

Post by acollins1331 » Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 2:25 PM UTC

NaCl_af wrote: post #219

Koshkin wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rejected from hundreds of jobs Sounds extreme. Were you applying to random jobs?

This year alone I’ve applied to over 800 C# or .Net related positions and have yet to get any offer. It’s incredibly difficult for some of us unfortunately. Precisely 886 if anyone was interested

Your cover letter or interview skills must be terrible.

Re: Reasons Why Job Seekers Are Not Given Feedback

#294

Post by acollins1331 » Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 2:29 PM UTC

hliyan wrote: post #268

perlgeek wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is another type of feedback that I as a candidate would find helpful, and that I would have liked to give candidates, but didn't due to corporate policy. Something along the lines of: "To pay you as much money as you requested, we'd have to categorize you as a [Senior/Prinicipal] developer, but your skills/experience only put you at [Junior/Professional]". If, as a candidate I had received this kind of feedback…

As an interviewer, candidates occasionally ask me "How did I do? Where could I improve?" when I ask them "Do you have any questions for me?" at the end of the interview. I usually say (and I happen to be in a country that is not very litigious) "While I can't tell you how you did in this interview -- we have to go through HR's process first -- I could offer you some general advice based on my experience", and would g…

As an interviewee it strikes me as odd you'd just ask your interviewer how you did during the interview. Seems like they're just assuming they did bad and didn't get it. Can you stereotype the type of candidate that asks for feedback during the interview or does it come from all types and from different success rates (hired/not)?

Re: Reasons Why Job Seekers Are Not Given Feedback

#295

Post by drharby » Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 2:45 PM UTC

boyband6666 wrote: post #270

Every job ad I've put up since starting my company has had over 100 candidates. 80 of whom are wholly unsuitable and do not send any cover letter. Another 10 don't bother with the cover letter but may have been suitable. All these are instant rejects with no feedback. The 10 I phone interview I will at least give feedback to, likewise the 3 who we eventually interview. Given so many no hopers though just clicking app…

I've never given a cover letter in my 10 year career thus far.

Re: Reasons Why Job Seekers Are Not Given Feedback

#296

Post by kosherbeefcake » Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 3:27 PM UTC

This is probably me just screaming into the void, but I'll provide my experience anyway.

I've found the entire "finding a new job" / interviewing process to be an incredibly alienating process. It truly brings me despair.

I've been working in IT for my entire professional career. I've worked as an analyst, project manager, and I'm currently a developer. I'll be the first to admit, I'm not a phenomenal developer, but I think my "Jack of all Trades" experience provides me with interesting insight. I'm more than the sum of my parts, I have a college degree in something completely unrelated to computers, I've started my own business, I love electronics and 3D printing. I'm attempting to leave my current company of 5+ years, and whether it's the "We only hire the best and brightest" mantra or something else, this experience has been miserable.

I've been asked to do push-ups in an interview, I've been ghosted multiple times, in a variety of places in the interview process. I've gotten berated on the phone by interviewers.

After the last volley of rejections, I've been looking inward whether IT is even really for me. Apparently the economy is doing great, and hiring is up, but that has simply not been my experience.

Re: Reasons Why Job Seekers Are Not Given Feedback

#297

Post by JMTQp8lwXL » Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 3:34 PM UTC

kosherbeefcake wrote: post #296

This is probably me just screaming into the void, but I'll provide my experience anyway. I've found the entire "finding a new job" / interviewing process to be an incredibly alienating process. It truly brings me despair. I've been working in IT for my entire professional career. I've worked as an analyst, project manager, and I'm currently a developer. I'll be the first to admit, I'm not a phenomenal developer, but…

Have you considered trying to get up to speed on Leetcode to accept what hiring's become today? The whole process is admittedly a dog and pony show, but just a few weeks of committing yourself to this type of problem solving could get you out of your situation.

Re: Reasons Why Job Seekers Are Not Given Feedback

#298

Post by r_c_a_d » Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 3:37 PM UTC

kilroy123 wrote: post #13

wgerard wrote: post #10

We interviewed a lot of hiring managers/etc. while we were working on a previous business in the hiring space. As part of that, we asked them this very question. The fear of litigation was by far the biggest reason we heard, but there were some other popular reasons (mostly relating around conflict avoidance): * Notably, giving feedback feels like an opening for the candidate to submit a rebuttal instead of ending th…

While that's all very understandable, at the very least give some kind of generic rejection. This was many years ago, but one time I did an all-day onsite interview (~6 hours long) and I was ghosted and never heard from the company again. That infuriates me even to this day. At least give me some kind of news that it was a no.

A similar thing happened to me too; it was a 3 hour onsite. No news at all... until about 2 weeks later I got an automated request from the agent asking me to fill in a feedback form on how they did. I had fun filling in that form!

Re: Reasons Why Job Seekers Are Not Given Feedback

#299

Post by JMTQp8lwXL » Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 3:39 PM UTC

adamredwoods wrote: post #124

awinder wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The asymmetry is actually pretty funny if you think about what happens when a candidate declines an offer or ghosts a company. If you ghost, they’re likely going to continue to contact over multiple channels. Because they want an answer so that they can take next steps. Same as a candidate. If you say thanks but no thanks, they’re going to want to know why, is there anything they could have done differently, or try t…

Not asymmetrical, in my opinion. Companies are holding all the cards, otherwise I wouldn't be looking for a job in the first place. I believe that someday there will be too few jobs for all the people on this planet.

Not completely true. You're holding some cards too if they're desperately needing a position filled.

Re: Reasons Why Job Seekers Are Not Given Feedback

#300

Post by rootlocus » Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 3:40 PM UTC

allthecybers wrote: post #112

As a Support Engineer for a well known tech company, I took on the extracurricular role of sourcing, screening and interviewing candidates for our team. We often had better results identifying candidates as an engineer making a direct contact. You do walk a fine line and create a lot of overhead to give feedback to all candidates. Generic feedback like "you weren't the right candidate" or "we were looking for someone…

> More detailed feedback can be tainted with personal bias and potentially skewed personal perspective based on how well you got along with an interviewer.

s/More detailed feedback/Your decision to reject the candidate/