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So You Think You Want to Open a Brewery (2014)

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Re: So You Think You Want to Open a Brewery (2014)

#291

Post by Chris2048 »

shkkmo wrote: post #286
Chris2048 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cooperation, freedom and passion are more important than competition, greed and ego These things aren't mutually exclusive. You can compete as a team and with the help of friends.

Of course they aren't mutually exclusive. Did you read where I acknowledge that competition is an important and useful dynamic? I just think that competition is fundementally less important than cooperation.

You also said "competition works best between between groups of freely cooperating individuals", but why? What's wrong with competing alone? It's still coeperation on a societal scale, e.g competing as an individual in a competition is still co-operating with the competition itself.

Re: So You Think You Want to Open a Brewery (2014)

#292

Post by shkkmo »

Chris2048 wrote: post #291
shkkmo wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course they aren't mutually exclusive. Did you read where I acknowledge that competition is an important and useful dynamic? I just think that competition is fundementally less important than cooperation.

You also said "competition works best between between groups of freely cooperating individuals", but why? What's wrong with competing alone? It's still coeperation on a societal scale, e.g competing as an individual in a competition is still co-operating with the competition itself.

> What's wrong with competing alone?

Nothing rong, per se, but there are limits to what individuals can do on their own. When you eliminate groups of cooperating individuals, there are much lower limits to what can be accomplished. Specifically when taking about the achievements of society, most enterprises require the efforts of cooperating groups. I feel like this is blatantly evident and doesn't require explanation.

> It's still coeperation on a societal scale, e.g competing as an individual in a competition is still co-operating with the competition itself.

I think you are mangling the definition of 'cooperation" here. It certainly is possible to compete and cooperate simultaneously (often by strictly limiting the scope of the competition and by sharing knowledge), but that doesn't mean that competing is cooperation. Even so, within that "societal scale" competition, the best results are achieved by groups that operate with either no or greatly limited internal competition.

Re: So You Think You Want to Open a Brewery (2014)

#293

Post by victor9000 »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #113
victor9000 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The abundance of hops in beer is a west coast thing, as east coast beers tend to be more mild. So that's something to look into if west coast beers don't appeal to your palate. However, assigning a regional flavor to some sort of bravado seems odd. Do people say the same thing about a dry wine, a strong flavored cheese, or an Islay scotch? Of course not, so this seems more like a personal issue than anything else.

> The abundance of hops in beer is a west coast thing, as east coast beers tend to be more mild I'm not sure about that. The "New England IPA" style comes from well, Vermont. And when done well is is a smooth, creamy intense hop milkshake.

Sure, if a specific style calls for a pile of hops then of course it will end up very hoppy. But generally speaking, your average west coast beer will be more hoppy than its east cost counterpart.

Re: So You Think You Want to Open a Brewery (2014)

#294

Post by TheAdamist »

walrus01 wrote: post #2

My personal taste complaint with a lot of people who open a brewery... Everyone seems to think that more hops = better beer. There are so many other possible flavors and types to a beer than some type of IPA that is absolutely overloaded with hops. But that seems to be a very common type of thing to brew. When I open something and am assaulted with the aroma of hops, it's not appealing anymore. It was interesting 7-8…

It's almost like the customers love hazy ipas, and breweries do gangbusters selling them.

There are a few pilsner/lager breweries but they have to be so much better at their styles and are still missing out on a large portion of the market.

Specialized sour breweries exist and do somewhat well, but the market is limited and the product takes years to age.

Re: So You Think You Want to Open a Brewery (2014)

#295

Post by justinator »

ehnto wrote: post #270
ehnto wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funnily enough I see lots of women on mountain bikes. I think mountain biking has a really clear delineation between fun and competition. Most mountain bikers have pretty relaxed attitudes, and very few compete. The goal is usually fun foremost. Compared to road cycling where it is more common to lean toward competition, personal performance and comparing to peers. That said, I see it happening there too. Once bike p…

Reading this back it might seem like I don't think women compete, on the contrary, women's MTB series seem to be just as popular and competitive as the men's series and they seem to get just as much television time. I remember being impressed by the coverage the first time I watched the Enduro World Series coverage online. My main point was just that MTB as a whole is much less competitive and more welcoming overall…

I think it may be more that road cycling has a rep on exclusion for anything different than the status quo - they made a book about it, poking fun of it:

https://www.velominati.com/

Plenty of women around here bike commute, mtb, etc. Women are very vocal in these part on cycling rights and livable cities in general.

There's a women-owned bike shop that caters specifically to people who want to find car replacements in their lives. I'm very proud of them, so I have to share:

https://bikeshopgirl.com/

Re: So You Think You Want to Open a Brewery (2014)

#296

Post by OJFord »

zerocrates wrote: post #245
OJFord wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 5th tier Europe - Good luck! Had some pretty good IPAs in Ireland, and maybe some half decent ones from Britain, but overall the stuff they market as "IPA" tastes wrong, malty and flat. Ha! Because what you're expecting and looking for is an 'American IPA' (style not origin). The other half are English or Imperial (there is sometimes a technical and sometimes only marketing distinction to be made between the latter…

Citra, and citrus flavor in general, is definitely still very much in vogue for American IPAs, but I don't really think of there being a huge difference in carbonation levels. British beer is usually less carbonated than American as a rule, but carbonation is actually one of the few areas where often-extreme American IPAs are relatively restrained, so it's not this massive gulf. "Imperial" is a tough descriptor for a…

Well, I concede that it may be even more exaggerated in other American styles, but certainly American IPAs are very much more carbonated than IPAs in Britain that aren't imitating that style.

'Imperial IPA' in Britain denotes a more traditional style - of course it's not regulated, but the one thing you can be certain of is that it won't be in the 'American IPA' style (you can get British made IPAs sold as 'American IPA', i.e. it is meant as a classifier of style, not orgin).

Traditional IPAs are low in carbonation even among British ales, highly hopped (boiled and dry), and 6-9%.

In short, the way you're saying it's used in America doesn't sound wrong to me!

(I believe dry hopping actually originated with the IPA, and its long voyage from London docks to India.)

Re: So You Think You Want to Open a Brewery (2014)

#297

Post by TurkishPoptart »

hyperbovine wrote: post #103
smogcutter wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% agreed. I think a few things go into it: - Americans don’t really get exposed to good lagers and pilseners. We get Bud[1], not Budvar. So there’s no expectation that beers in those categories could possibly be “good”. IPAs don’t have the same baggage. - For the same reason, it’s easier to differentiate from the big brands on a supermarket shelf. You get to be your own category, not just the more expensive versio…

> Bud on draft is fine. Oh man, was with you till the very end. Most places will have something on tap that qualifies as real beer. PBR, Yuengling, Stella, and Pilsner Urquell are all great lagers. Confronted with 40 taps of HOPULUS PRIME (or whatever), I'll happily swill them all day in a non-ironic, non-cheapskate, non-hipster fashion. But rice adjuncts? No thank you.

Is PBR really that different from Bud?

Re: So You Think You Want to Open a Brewery (2014)

#298

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

victor9000 wrote: post #293
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The abundance of hops in beer is a west coast thing, as east coast beers tend to be more mild I'm not sure about that. The "New England IPA" style comes from well, Vermont. And when done well is is a smooth, creamy intense hop milkshake.

Sure, if a specific style calls for a pile of hops then of course it will end up very hoppy. But generally speaking, your average west coast beer will be more hoppy than its east cost counterpart.

A specific, extremely popular style that literally has "east coast" in the name.

Re: So You Think You Want to Open a Brewery (2014)

#299

Post by Cougher »

mumblemumble wrote: post #288
Cougher wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The days when one could get away with marketing something like Shiner Bock as a bock are long gone." Can I look forward to the days when one can't get away with marketing American IPAs as IPAs? Because they're nothing like the British originals. I was also a homebrewer and a beer judge for a short time. That was back in the day (the 80s) when Pilsner Urquell was still the most bitter beer in the world. There was a s…

No, and there's not a strong historical basis for making the distinction, either - in the UK, the hop and grain bills for beers sold as IPAs have been in a constant state of flux for centuries now, and it wasn't all that long ago that an IPA coming from a London brewery could have been more bitter than a standard American IPA nowadays. If it's any consolation, at least in the classification system used by the BJCP st…

"it wasn't all that long ago that an IPA coming from a London brewery could have been more bitter than a standard American IPA nowadays."

This is a very loose implication that I won't bother addressing, nor your use of the word "solely".

Re: So You Think You Want to Open a Brewery (2014)

#300

Post by Chris2048 »

shkkmo wrote: post #292
Chris2048 wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also said "competition works best between between groups of freely cooperating individuals", but why? What's wrong with competing alone? It's still coeperation on a societal scale, e.g competing as an individual in a competition is still co-operating with the competition itself.

> What's wrong with competing alone? Nothing rong, per se, but there are limits to what individuals can do on their own. When you eliminate groups of cooperating individuals, there are much lower limits to what can be accomplished. Specifically when taking about the achievements of society, most enterprises require the efforts of cooperating groups. I feel like this is blatantly evident and doesn't require explanatio…

> but that doesn't mean that competing is cooperation

If you take part in a competition, you are cooperating with its organisers in making the event happen.

> there are much lower limits to what can be accomplished

We are talking about small achievments though, e.g opening a brewery.

If I read a book about that, am I cooperating with its author? If not, plenty is possible without cooperation; If so, lots can be achieved via indirect cooperation.

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