U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#291

Post by cies » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 2:02 PM UTC

throwaway66920 wrote: post #283

cies wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Alternatively if Yemen rebels attack Saudi Arabia, that’s bad. Why is it bad? I mean, after they've been at the receiving end of Saud's war machine, why can they not retaliate? They sure did not cause as much boodshed (zero, just material damage) as the Sauds have caused them.

I get that you have a gripe with Saudi geo politics. And it’s probably one I agree with, but I’m really just trying to say that blowing random innocents can vary in the severity of repercussions and that you’re not “falling for propaganda” or following racist ideas if you acknowledge this- and that moral and practical concerns are separate things.

> that moral and practical concerns are separate things.

I agree. This separation I find problematic. How often we hear "I want to be vegan (for the animals = moral) but I cannot give up cheese/meat/etc (too convenient/tasty = practical)"

To me they are not separate. Oppression is oppression, I hate it regardless who does it or how inconvenient it is to stop it.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#292

Post by lawn » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 2:06 PM UTC

kmjg88nvf8 wrote: post #269

tempodox wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Taliban were a tiny splinter group before the US financed and trained them. They have always been fanatics. Funny how they were not called terrorists while the US thought they could use them for their own ends.

Why did the US fiance and train them? So it seems there was another war going on? Who started that war, and why? Also I think they changed their allegiances, so they became terrorist towards US people?

> Who started that war, and why?

Funny you ask... It was called the cold war, you might want to look it up. US was a pretty big player there.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#293

Post by justin66 » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 2:16 PM UTC

zxcvbn4038 wrote: post #154

Notice the wording - the drone targeted the workers. The drone didn’t make a decision and target the workers, the drone pilot targeted the workers, and whomever was standing behind them gave the order to launch the missle. The whole “I’m just doing what the computer said” defense only works in movies.

> Notice the wording - the drone targeted the workers. ... The whole “I’m just doing what the computer said” defense only works in movies.

Fair enough, but I would not read too much into that choice of words. For example:

“The workers had lit a bonfire and were sitting together when a drone targeted them,” tribal elder Malik Rahat Gul told Reuters by telephone from Wazir Tangi.

I don't believe that Malik Rahat Gul (or possibly, his translator) was attempting to relieve anyone of moral agency or responsibility, do you?

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#294

Post by harshalizee » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 2:20 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #272

wruza wrote: post #2

Now imagine “U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in France” and feel the difference (which is non-existent). Then it goes on tv and reads the list of this morning’s evil men who must be stopped.

I’m pretty sure there aren’t people in France trying to establish a violent worldwide theocracy, and even if there were, the French government would have a handle on it/not be complicit. We don’t conduct missions in Afghanistan for funsies. We do it because there is no State we can lean on to stamp down on the extremists.

Oh you mean like how the US government has a handle on it's own homegrown extremism?

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#295

Post by kmjg88nvf8 » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 2:23 PM UTC

lawn wrote: post #292

kmjg88nvf8 wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did the US fiance and train them? So it seems there was another war going on? Who started that war, and why? Also I think they changed their allegiances, so they became terrorist towards US people?

> Who started that war, and why? Funny you ask... It was called the cold war, you might want to look it up. US was a pretty big player there.

So you would blame the US for cold war? What would you have done instead?

Before cold war, there was WWII, and communist revolutions.

I don't want to defend any particular war, I just think it may all be a bit more complicated than a simple "we shouldn't have started any wars".

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#296

Post by rayiner » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 2:36 PM UTC

harshalizee wrote: post #294

rayiner wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m pretty sure there aren’t people in France trying to establish a violent worldwide theocracy, and even if there were, the French government would have a handle on it/not be complicit. We don’t conduct missions in Afghanistan for funsies. We do it because there is no State we can lean on to stamp down on the extremists.

Oh you mean like how the US government has a handle on it's own homegrown extremism?

As someone from a Muslim country that’s battling extremists—your false equivalence is ignorant, and your ignorance is dangerous.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#297

Post by rayiner » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 2:40 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #290

rayiner wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they’re a communist regime?

So anything they fight for must be bad no matter what it is? Even if they’re hunting down ISIS and al Qaeda members just like we are?

I assumed your hypothetical was framed in terms of the existing situation and interests. That it wasn’t along the lines of: “the US government has fallen to ISIS and cannot police its own territory; China accidentally kills some US civilians while bombing extremists.” If that was your hypothetical, then I think you’d be surprised how few Americans would be outraged. I’m pretty sure it’d make for a decent movie.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#298

Post by wstuartcl » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 2:49 PM UTC

justin66 wrote: post #293

zxcvbn4038 wrote: post #154

Notice the wording - the drone targeted the workers. The drone didn’t make a decision and target the workers, the drone pilot targeted the workers, and whomever was standing behind them gave the order to launch the missle. The whole “I’m just doing what the computer said” defense only works in movies.

> Notice the wording - the drone targeted the workers. ... The whole “I’m just doing what the computer said” defense only works in movies. Fair enough, but I would not read too much into that choice of words. For example: “The workers had lit a bonfire and were sitting together when a drone targeted them,” tribal elder Malik Rahat Gul told Reuters by telephone from Wazir Tangi. I don't believe that Malik Rahat Gul (o…

I do see at first glance it could be seen as a simple choice of words, however, I do think it really leaves many readers with a different takeaway.

“The workers had lit a bonfire and were sitting together when a drone targeted them,” tribal elder Malik Rahat Gul told Reuters by telephone from Wazir Tangi.

“The workers had lit a bonfire and were sitting together when a drone pilot targeted them,” tribal elder Malik Rahat Gul told Reuters by telephone from Wazir Tangi.

Small change, large impact on the takeaway.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#299

Post by smcl » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 2:51 PM UTC

jacobush wrote: post #226

smcl wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The negotiations and the deal were extremely dumb in many ways (as is Brexit overall), but this is a really weird take on it. It does make sense that Britain would try to use the fact that Ireland has a substantial amount of trade with the UK and it is not inconceivable that Ireland might therefore in its own self-interest want some sort of deal.

Weird or not, that's the take in many places, Ireland and Afghanistan alike. A modest proposal, eh?

You're mistaken if you think that even the more recent atrocities like the great famine or the violent oppression of the Irish home rule (and ultimately independence) movement have informed the Irish response to Brexit negotiations. It is to their credit that they're pragmatic people, since they could easily dish out a black-eye to the UK if they wanted to.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#300

Post by justin66 » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 3:06 PM UTC

wstuartcl wrote: post #298

justin66 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Notice the wording - the drone targeted the workers. ... The whole “I’m just doing what the computer said” defense only works in movies. Fair enough, but I would not read too much into that choice of words. For example: “The workers had lit a bonfire and were sitting together when a drone targeted them,” tribal elder Malik Rahat Gul told Reuters by telephone from Wazir Tangi. I don't believe that Malik Rahat Gul (o…

I do see at first glance it could be seen as a simple choice of words, however, I do think it really leaves many readers with a different takeaway. “The workers had lit a bonfire and were sitting together when a drone targeted them,” tribal elder Malik Rahat Gul told Reuters by telephone from Wazir Tangi. “The workers had lit a bonfire and were sitting together when a drone pilot targeted them,” tribal elder Malik Ra…

Someone needs to tell that guy to choose his words a little more carefully after dozens of his neighbors are killed.

I think the person I was responding to was implying that the wording was chosen to downplay what had been done. I don't think that is likely, given the identity of the only person quoted in the article to use that choice of words.

> Small change, large impact on the takeaway.

Meh.