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Richard M. Stallman resigns

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Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#291

Post by Shinkei »

bad_user wrote: post #252
naringas wrote: post #114

it's rather interesting how all the information technology (social media, etc...) is slowly moving our culture towards increasing self-censorship. One has to have the right opinion or stay quiet. Having the wrong opinion about certain topics is getting more expensive. Stay away from taboos or else... never mind the fact that what we regard as wrong changes across different societies over time. Weirdly all the informa…

This has nothing to do with technology. If you start expressing opinions about how sex with a sex-trafficked child should be legal, won't your friends and family raise some questions about your character? Unless we're talking of morally flexible individuals. And at least parents should raise an eyebrow, since we have this natural reaction to protect our children. > information wants to be free Whomever said that was…

Yet another person who throws around the word 'pedophile' in a very inaccurate way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

There is no evidence that he was a pedophile. In fact, many of the 'girls' he had relations with were by their own admission consensual and involved compensation.

He certainly broke the law in this country and his morals and character are in question, but what he did is (and has been throughout history) legal in much of the world and we can't act like US law is a surrogate for universal ethics/morals:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe

At some point we have to decide if girls/women have agency to decide their sexual activity. 25 year-olds can be coerced in asymmetric power relationships just like a 16 year-old. We already know about the double-standard of sex when drunk--if you are man, it's consensual, but if you are a woman, it's always rape.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_trafficking

And as an aside, I think that the use of 'sex trafficking' in this context does a disservice to the actual, bonafide victims of sex trafficking--people that are kidnapped, passports confiscated, literally enslaved. Now because the term has been co-opted by a self-righteous political agenda, we can't have personals on Craigslist.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#292

Post by chromatic »

RHSeeger wrote: post #134
geofft wrote: post #73

> Washington had slaves, that doesn't mean we should hate him. Counterpoint: yes it does. Judging Washington by the standards of his time and his peers , slavery was abhorrent. Take the case of Quock Walker, who sued for his freedom in 1781, for instance. The chief justice of Massachusetts (and later Washington's own nominee for chief justice of the US) wrote: > As to the doctrine of slavery and the right of Christia…

I'm not saying that Washington thought he was right to have slaves. He was wrong to have slaves and it reflects poorly on him that he did. Rather, I'm saying the amount of good he did for this country far outweighs his wrongs.

I'm saying the amount of good he did for this country far outweighs his wrongs.

I'm just certain sure his slaves felt the same way. Especially Ona Judge.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#293

Post by eecc »

bad_user wrote: post #252
naringas wrote: post #114

it's rather interesting how all the information technology (social media, etc...) is slowly moving our culture towards increasing self-censorship. One has to have the right opinion or stay quiet. Having the wrong opinion about certain topics is getting more expensive. Stay away from taboos or else... never mind the fact that what we regard as wrong changes across different societies over time. Weirdly all the informa…

This has nothing to do with technology. If you start expressing opinions about how sex with a sex-trafficked child should be legal, won't your friends and family raise some questions about your character? Unless we're talking of morally flexible individuals. And at least parents should raise an eyebrow, since we have this natural reaction to protect our children. > information wants to be free Whomever said that was…

Dude please review what you wrote, that’s libel

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#294

Post by DoreenMichele »

brianjhanfox wrote: post #283
accntwithnoname wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wasn't a witch hunt. This should have happened a long time ago. He is a creep, and has been problematic for years. “He literally used to have a mattress on the floor of his office. He kept the door to his office open, to proudly showcase that mattress and all the implications that went with it. Many female students avoided the corridor with his office for that reason…I was one of the course 6 undergrads who avoi…

He slept in his office, and had ever since his house caught on fire, some years before I met him. I met him in 1984. When he moved his office to a rebuilt floor at tech square, he had a wall dividing the office into two halves. One half was his sleeping space, and the other, which was accessible from the hallway, was his working space.

He slept in his office, and had ever since his house caught on fire

Yeah. This is true.

He was intermittently homeless while developing the free software stuff. It was kind of homeless lite because he was a hacker and often slept at work.

He was unable to register to vote at one point because he listed his work address and described himself as a squatter. He got his right to vote when some interview in some national publication came out stating the same thing. At that point, the registrar of voters accepted his work address on his application.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#295

Post by journalctl »

robocat wrote: post #278
accntwithnoname wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wasn't a witch hunt. This should have happened a long time ago. He is a creep, and has been problematic for years. “He literally used to have a mattress on the floor of his office. He kept the door to his office open, to proudly showcase that mattress and all the implications that went with it. Many female students avoided the corridor with his office for that reason…I was one of the course 6 undergrads who avoi…

I think that targeting a "creepy" social misfit is one definition of a witch hunt. We can mostly defend against men that give out creepy social cues. Guys that are not creepy are far harder to defend against or get justice against: a guy that knows how to present himself understands social signals (almost self defining) and they can often get away with a lot because of that. Plenty of guys hit on young women (I saw a…

What’s truly remarkable is that you spent several paragraphs admitting that men tend to make offensive, sexist remarks and gestures, and then you use this to justify Stallman’s behavior. This is exactly why the tech industry NEEDS to do better.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#296

Post by rosser »

armitron wrote: post #279
rosser wrote: post #97

I find the volume of the noise being made over whether or not the "entirely willing" bit was quoted out of context by the media for sensationalist purposes — which it 100% was — quite curious. To me, the place Stallman screwed up was in trying to quibble over terms in defense of a man who we have reason to believe had sex with an woman of an age in a jurisdiction where that might have constituted rape. Because that's…

> the place Stallman screwed up was in trying to quibble over terms in defense of a man who we have reason to believe had sex with an woman of an age in a jurisdiction where that might have constituted rape. This is where you jump to conclusions and become a part of this charade. All we have are unsubstantiated allegations that do not even say definitively that sex took place. And just based on that, your and the mob…

You know what, dude? I really, really hope it is just an allegation. I want desperately for it not to be the case that Minsky got sucked into Epstein's shitty web. But the deposition we've seen so far is just that: the only one we've seen so far.

That said, and this is key, none of this is about whether or not Minsky did anything. Assuming he did, it isn't even about whether it was with a minor, or a woman of legal age. It's about Stallman having decided that was a prudent moment and subject about which to "Well actually..." at the world. The whole point is Stallman's behavior, not Minsky's.

In all seriousness: what the actual fuck does Richard Stallman's opinion on what does or doesn't constitute rape matter? Why would he think that was a point that needed his quibbling? Maybe that's the judgement under question.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#297

Post by smallmancontrov »

xlii wrote: post #254

I, as many others, never personally liked Dr. Stallman and didn’t agreed with many of his views. That being said, the way that that happened is absolutely terrifying. Fact, that people rather crucify someone instead of argue, explain or prove him wrong is the sign of our times. End of free speech is here. It’s free only if it doesn’t offend group powerful enough to destroy you, and it’s narrowing every single day. We…

Terrifying is right. Look at how the telephone game evolved a debate about what Minsky knew or didn't into a defense of child sex trafficking:

Stallman:

> the most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to him as entirely willing.

Selam G.

> [Stallman] says that an enslaved child could, somehow, be “entirely willing”.

VICE:

> Stallman insists that the “most plausible scenario” is that Epstein’s underage victims were “entirely willing” while being trafficked.

New York Post:

> MIT scientist says Epstein victim Virginia Giuffre was ‘entirely willing’

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#299

Post by journalctl »

mattst88 wrote: post #276
accntwithnoname wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wasn't a witch hunt. This should have happened a long time ago. He is a creep, and has been problematic for years. “He literally used to have a mattress on the floor of his office. He kept the door to his office open, to proudly showcase that mattress and all the implications that went with it. Many female students avoided the corridor with his office for that reason…I was one of the course 6 undergrads who avoi…

Maybe I'm just dense, but I don't understand what the "implications" are. Someone clear up the meaning for me?

Sex. He implies that he has sex with women in his office.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#300

Post by eecc »

Uhuhreally wrote: post #216
naringas wrote: post #114

it's rather interesting how all the information technology (social media, etc...) is slowly moving our culture towards increasing self-censorship. One has to have the right opinion or stay quiet. Having the wrong opinion about certain topics is getting more expensive. Stay away from taboos or else... never mind the fact that what we regard as wrong changes across different societies over time. Weirdly all the informa…

Bollocks. Like Ricky Gervais said the other day actually you can say anything you like. People might not agree with you and that's fine.

Nope... people will not agree and call you out, drumming up outrage until you resign or get kicked out.

From what I’ve read about the Cultural Revolution and Jaquereies, what’s going on looks pretty much the same mob pattern.

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