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Terminating Service for 8Chan

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Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#291

Post by sadris »

armada651 wrote: post #265
roenxi wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We could have a nationwide epidemic of mass shootings flying under the radar entirely. There are published statistics. They suggest that the focus should be on car safety, driving and worrying about bad habits that have health impacts. We'd know if there was a problem and the evidence is that your greatest enemy is you. It'd be interesting to get statistics on how many of these shootings are linked to drug abuse th…

> There are published statistics. But no government data unlike car deaths, because the gun lobby blocks any attempt to actually fund research into gun deaths.

The FBI tracks homicides by firearms. You are incorrect.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#292

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

tyre wrote: post #132
Lazare wrote: post #15

On the one hand, I like the idea of a free, open, and distributed internet, where no one company or government has the power to control what is distributed or discussed. As the great John Gilmore said, more aspirationally than accurately even then: "The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it." On the other hand, we don't live in that world, and I don't know how well it would work in practice if we d…

This feels like a misunderstanding of the word freedom. Freedom in speech means that I can say what I want. It does _not_ mean that a hosting company has to host it or that a CDN has to optimize it or that a search company has to rank it or that an ad-network has to monetize it. Each of those players is free to do what they think is best with their time, resources, etc.; which often includes thinking of what "the pub…

When you use the tired, old "businesses can refuse to serve anybody they want" argument, understand that you are using the same arguments used in the past to refuse business to various races, creeds, orientations etc. that are now protected classes. That really ought to make you queasy and perhaps you should contemplate why.

By the way, some states are now recognizing that political affiliation needs to be a protected class as well: https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/political-aff.... It may not be in keeping with modern progressive thought but is certainly in the spirit of classical liberalism as well as an important first step in depolarizing the country.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#293

Post by mirimir »

RobAtticus wrote: post #247
colordrops wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you cite evidence for this? My understanding is that deaths due to mass shootings hasn't really changed since the 70s, but rather the media coverage has expanded.

That seems unlikely. The first graph[1] on this Wiki[2] article shows from 1982 until 2017 -- so not the exact range you mentioned -- but it shows that mass shooting deaths are higher today than decades ago. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_S... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_S...

Sure, but the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995 "killed at least 168 people, [and] injured more than 680 others".[0] And annual traffic deaths were 50K-35K during the 90s through the 01s.[1]

0) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing

1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_traffic_deaths_per_VMT...

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#295

Post by millstone »

yongjik wrote: post #240
umvi wrote: post #34

It would be better if cloudflare terminated service for all media outlets. Every time you turn a mass shooting into a national spectacle, it inspires copycats in rapid succession as we've just seen. Mass shootings (generally) don't kill that many people. They are scary, yes, but not that deadly (statistically). Keep it local news, don't publish the name of the killer, basically keep the story away from the front line…

In every other, let's say, G20 country, someone shooting up a shopping mall and killing 20 will absolutely make national news - they will talk about it for months and it will be ranked "top ten worst news for $country in 2019", if not the absolute worst. In some countries (let's say, Korea) reporters will probably dig into the shooter's elementary school transcripts and interview second cousins. In other words, if an…

What's your diagnosis?

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#296

Post by ceejayoz »

airforce1 wrote: post #276
dghughes wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. News reports what happened. These days people seem to see news organizations as the enemy or at least the news organizations they don't like. Although one thing I have noticed about news these days is it tends to voice personal opinion openly much more than years ago. Walter Cronkite, Tom Brokaw, Peter Jennings wouldn't spout their own opinion they'd tell you what happened, and that's it. Show the bodies,…

> News reports what happened. selectively reports what happened, and only if it tells the right narrative and/or generates clicks, yes. Mass shooting where 3 innocents die = clicks and correct narrative and will therefore be reported. DUI crash where 5 innocents die = boring, wrong narrative; no report Civilian kills police officer = boring, wrong narrative; no report Police officer kills civilian (esp. with differen…

> Civilian kills police officer = boring, wrong narrative; no report

You're kidding, right?

Cops getting doused in water got national news coverage.

So'd https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_killings_of_NYPD_officers

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#297

Post by sytelus »

word-reader wrote: post #199

This post repeatedly refers to 8chan as "lawless" and "unmoderated" but it is neither. As a whole, it is a public website subject to US law, complete with DMCA and search warrant contact forms. The sitewide rule is that all content must comply with US law. The media also keeps saying 8chan, 8chan, 8chan over and over, when it is really just the one most popular board ("pol") that is being discussed. But there are hun…

Brandenburg v. Ohio is interesting. Technically doesn't it mean that any speech that calls for action against existing law loses protection from First Amendment? I'm sure SC judges will make sane decisions for now but doesn't this door wide open for this possibility? Given most speech needing First Amendment protection is against some law, this SC decision feels very troublesome to me. Especially now that SC judges are appointed strictly to align with government, Brandenburg v. Ohio can be used for any speech against government to be deemed outside of first amendment protection. No?

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#299

Post by cambalache »

abootstrapper wrote: post #259
cambalache wrote: post #71

Who is going to deplatform Facebook and Twitter? After all plenty of shooters have used them too. Before the usual: " But 8chan is a cesspool of bla bla" Probably it is, but, either the users are doing something ilegal in the site and you close it if the owners refuse to comply with a legal request, or they are not doing anything illegal so they have to be left alone. For the "Free Speech is freedom from government p…

People of color, and LGBT are demographics. White supremacy is an ideology (a reprehensible one at that). People choose their ideology, not their race, or sexuality. They are not the same thing. Third party businesses should not feel any obligation to do business with "dudes who blabber" about the murdering and hate of others.

What about communists, anarchists, marxists, mormons, people who believe there are genetically based cognitive differences based on sex/race. What about people who are against abortion, against weed legalization, what about people who consider cops to be a civilian death squad used by the rich to oppress the poor. What about people who think the US Army is an occupation force in every place but America. Is OK to discriminate some of them? All of them? None? Are you going to manage the API so the apps can be built to see who is worthy or not?

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#300

Post by ilaksh »

A big issue is that we are seeing enthusiasm for censorship. So I hope that people will do some research into the history and current use of censorship.

The other difficult problem is that people think that their country is an exception to all other countries and history with regards to censorship and everything else.

One other issue: corporations that have as much or more centralized power as governments. In line with the rest of my comment, one reason this is problematic is because it is much easier for governments to assert control over individual companies. And those policies (sometimes good or sometimes very bad) affect masses of people.

It really seems to me that we are moving towards a more homogeneous global political system that honestly appears to be modeled after the Chinese one and will probably be controlled from there.

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