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Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches

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Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches

#291

Post by lmm »

tom_mellior wrote: post #286
lmm wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We need to eliminate actul emissions. As in, actual exhaust gases coming out of cars and planes and snokestacks, not just mathematically offset "net" emissions. There is no way around that. How so? What difference is there between emitting zero and emitting x kilograms and sequestering x kilograms?

Extra work. Exactly the problem of having to mine and dump a lot more minerals or plant a lot more trees or whatever if we keep emitting too much.

Market pricing can take care of that though. If the thing that creates carbon emissions is valuable enough that it's cheaper to offset those emissions than stop doing the thing (or find a non-emitting way to do the thing), it makes sense to do the thing and the offsetting.

Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches

#292

Post by ThomPete »

adrianN wrote: post #284
ThomPete wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Demonstrated scientifically to happen over how long time, when and where?

It's in the IPCC reports, you can look it up.

No, it's not but thanks for kind of proving my point.

Scientifically demonstrated is not the same as speculated.

Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches

#293

Post by willyt »

nkoren wrote: post #242
matznerd wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are not pitching this as "THE" solution, but as "a" solution that can scale up to and beyond the global level of yearly CO2 emissions. Even after the "low-hanging opportunities" it makes a good amount of sense, as mining olivine is not difficult and there are large reserves on every continent. You are incorrect that olivine mining at a large scale would incur tremendous energy costs, it will not. I would suggest y…

Thanks for responding to my criticism and taking it seriously! The energy costs for this are indeed a lot less than I had imagined. I've seen plenty of appealing sequestration concepts where the numbers definitely don't work out, so I appreciate you doing the math on this! I would push back, however, on the land impacts of mining. Open-pit mining is exactly what I was referring to, and it doesn't have a good reputati…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glensanda This super quarry is in a very scenic area of the west coast of Scotland and supplies 6M tons of granite aggregate yearly and apart from the quay you would not know it is there, so it can be done reasonably sensitively.

Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches

#294

Post by willyt »

psandersen wrote: post #287
TimJRobinson wrote: post #129

With the ability to reduce pH levels in the surrounding water this seems like something the Australian Government would be very interested in investing in to save the Great Barrier Reef. That could be a good pilot site as the government has said they're going to spend $500MM on saving the reef so money is already available if the technology works.

Whats the chance that $500M is actually to help the reef and not just used for corruption or forgotten about until the next election? I have zero faith in the current Australian gov doing anything to mitigate climate change... Otherwise this is a great idea!

I thought one of the big problems with Australian politicians doing anything about climate change was that the ruling conservatives are in hock to the big open cast mining companies. Seems like this could be a great opportunity to get these companies on side, especially if there is $500M to be made from it. Much easier to give out the money to them in the open for a good reason than to somehow launder it through some complicated corrupt process.

Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches

#295

Post by adrianN »

ThomPete wrote: post #292
adrianN wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's in the IPCC reports, you can look it up.

No, it's not but thanks for kind of proving my point. Scientifically demonstrated is not the same as speculated.

The effects of climate change are scientifically demonstrated in a similar way to evolution. We don't have a planet B for controlled experiments.

Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches

#296

Post by pier25 »

empath75 wrote: post #222
pier25 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You would be surprised how much coastline around the world is undeveloped and not even accessible by roads etc True, but does that apply to tropical coastlines too? I live in Mexico, even lived in Cancún for a couple of years, the majority of the tropical coastline in the Riviera Maya there is used for touristic purposes. I don't know the pacific coastline as much but I've been there a couple of times and AFAIK mos…

Try Honduras or Nicaragua or Guatemala.

Never been there but how much coastline with beaches do these countries have compared to Mexico?

I've been to Costa Rica and there is tourism in a large portion of its beaches. See this map for example on the Pacific Northern coast: https://news.co.cr/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/a-detailed-loo...

Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches

#297

Post by ThomPete »

adrianN wrote: post #295
ThomPete wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's not but thanks for kind of proving my point. Scientifically demonstrated is not the same as speculated.

The effects of climate change are scientifically demonstrated in a similar way to evolution. We don't have a planet B for controlled experiments.

In other words speculated not demonstrated.

We do have economies B for controlled experiments and that data is pretty clear.

The richest countries are those who use the most energy to help them deal with nature.

Effects might happen depending on the temperature but we don't know which or how severe or when or if it will. We don't know how much humans affect it meaning that we don't know if it even make sense to do anything.

Evolution is not scientifically demonstrated. It's a way to interpret the data and observations from biology. It's the model that explains the best, but it's not in itself science just like climate science isn't science in any concise way but rather an interpretation of data.

It's that data which is being discussed and speculated about. We are very far from demonstrating even a fraction of what we speculate.

Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches

#298

Post by adrianN »

ThomPete wrote: post #297
adrianN wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The effects of climate change are scientifically demonstrated in a similar way to evolution. We don't have a planet B for controlled experiments.

In other words speculated not demonstrated. We do have economies B for controlled experiments and that data is pretty clear. The richest countries are those who use the most energy to help them deal with nature. Effects might happen depending on the temperature but we don't know which or how severe or when or if it will. We don't know how much humans affect it meaning that we don't know if it even make sense to do an…

Modern physics is also just the model that best fits the data. By your criteria there is no science other than Mathematics.

Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches

#299

Post by SwellJoe »

6d6b73 wrote: post #278
SwellJoe wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Climate change is the result of (mostly) unregulated profit-seeking. Not merely a lack of worry about long-term effects of our actions. It isn't accidental...we knew decades ago that there were consequences, but a few people with a lot of money bought policies ignoring the problem (from willing politicians worldwide). There is a profit motive behind our climate catastrophe, not "oops, I forgot to turn off the climate…

And you don't think there is no profit motive in the current "global warming industry"?

I thought we were having a serious/sincere conversation.

Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches

#300

Post by alikim »

tgirod wrote: post #277

Hey, we are fucking up the environment by altering such a complex system way too fast for it to keep balance. Maybe if we alter it on a whole new scale with our limited understanding of the consequences, we can fix things up? To be more constructive, this is exactly the kind of hubris that gets me very wary of technoscience. Let's assume Project Vesta is run by well intentionned folks and has the potential to offer a…

Agreed, but climate change is a monumental issue and even if we assume the government can act in a timely manner to shift the economic model to one that is more environmentally friendly, that won't be enough to fix the problem. I don't think this should be viewed as a cop out, or an alternative to economic change, but rather as something that augments it and moves us in the right direction.
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