Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image • Hacker News Board

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#291

Post by LanceH » Thu, Apr 11, 2019, 3:39 PM UTC

blattimwind wrote: post #204

wallace_f wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>large diameters due to the inverse relationship between angular resolution and telescope diameter. Not trained in this field, but this reads like a certain mistype. Shouldn't resolution increase with telescope diameter?

No. Angular resolution is essentially the angular distance between two points that are still resolved as separate points. So if your resolution increases, angular resolution decreases, because you can resolve two points that are closer together.

It should be pointed out this is a balance against increased diameter which is needed to see anything at all.

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#292

Post by slantyyz » Thu, Apr 11, 2019, 3:40 PM UTC

dvtrn wrote: post #227

ominous wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Her name is Katie Bouman. She can also be addressed as Dr. Katie Bouman.

Sure. But in a published headline, one ought to be addressed by their formal title. Differences exist between casual conversation and publication. A distinction I shouldn’t have to point out as one that exists.

Looking at the style guide, looks like the title may have been dropped because the length was already longer than 55 characters? I couldn't find a formal rule related to titles in headlines.

As long as the BBC is consistent (and not biased because of gender or other factors), I don't think it's a big deal.

From the BBC's style guide[1]:

Doctor

Use the title Dr (always abbreviated) for doctors of medicine, scientific doctors and church ministers who hold doctorates - but only when it is relevant. So it would be Mr Liam Fox. But do not use Dr for politicians who have a doctorate in politics, history etc. Surgeons should be referred to as Mr/Mrs/Ms.

headlines

Index-level headlines must be 30-39 characters long, including gaps - usually five to seven words. Story-level headlines can be up to 55 characters (a little longer as long as key words are within the 55) and should aim to include key terms to attract search engine referrals.

Avoid the US convention of using a comma in place of the word "and" (eg: "Crowe, Roberts in Oscar triumph").

If the attribution is clear, there is no need for quotation marks (eg: I’ve had enough, says Smith). Any quotation marks in a headline must be single.

Headlines might appear without an accompanying summary, so keep them simple. A cryptic headline, out of context, may be meaningless.

[1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/academy/en/articles/art201310101127407...

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#293

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 11, 2019, 3:45 PM UTC

gasbikesracecar wrote: post #288

govg wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think she was a large part of the implementation effort, especially with her background. Andrew Chael seems to have been the programmer on this project, or at least handled a lot of it. (Note a significant fraction of his code commits content are models)

Chael did all the work and Katies janitor cleanup code gets all the credit. Woman vs LGBT face off, woman wins this time!

[deleted]

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#294

Post by dvtrn » Thu, Apr 11, 2019, 3:46 PM UTC

slantyyz wrote: post #292

dvtrn wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. But in a published headline, one ought to be addressed by their formal title. Differences exist between casual conversation and publication. A distinction I shouldn’t have to point out as one that exists.

Looking at the style guide, looks like the title may have been dropped because the length was already longer than 55 characters? I couldn't find a formal rule related to titles in headlines. As long as the BBC is consistent (and not biased because of gender or other factors), I don't think it's a big deal. From the BBC's style guide[1]: Doctor Use the title Dr (always abbreviated) for doctors of medicine, scientific…

I appreciate you taking the time to go and find what BBC’s editorial standards are for formal titles in their headlines. It’s entirely possible you’re right and this is why it was dropped, I should have gone and looked for their style guide the way you did.

May have found my own answer much sooner but thanks nonetheless for that bit of information.

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#295

Post by MagicPropmaker » Thu, Apr 11, 2019, 3:46 PM UTC

dennisgorelik wrote: post #242

melling wrote: post #17

Katie gave a TED talk: https://youtu.be/BIvezCVcsYs

It is an interesting presentation, but I do NOT understand Katie's explanation about how they were going to minimize the bias [to "see" already predicted black hole visualization] while creatively interpreting inputs from sparsely placed telescopes around the earth. Do you understand Katie's explanation?

I had the same issue. It seemed like with many plausible solutions, there is some bias in the image. I agree there are some reasonable constraints, like it should be energetic stuff in a sphere around a dark sphere, but how many solutions would have fit that criteria?

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#296

Post by ummonk » Thu, Apr 11, 2019, 3:49 PM UTC

cheekybillberry wrote: post #259

dalemyers wrote: post #44

I've read comments on Hacker News for many years, often finding them a useful source of additional information and insight into details from whatever the linked piece is. Sometimes these threads are full of only subtly veiled hatred and leave me with a feeling of disgust. This thread is one of those. There have been countless threads over the years where a man gets the credit for something a team has worked on and th…

I think this might be one of those cases where we just have to agree to disagree, but I, well, disagree with the premise that the reaction to men is any different on this point. There are regularly posts here linking to articles about misattribution of credit in science and technology, the problem with the "great man theory," laments about the role of social media in creating hype, and there are plenty of male figure…

Yeah, these arguments happen all the time, with plenty of male figures as well.

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#297

Post by realradicalwash » Thu, Apr 11, 2019, 3:49 PM UTC

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #283

realradicalwash wrote: post #265

Her story is trully inspiring! She seems like a really likable person, has been hard working, with great results, making a major contribution. The photo with her and the hard drives is amazing and I am sure she will inspire many to enter science. However, I think to call her "the woman behind the first black hole image" is a hyperbole. It makes it sound as if she was _the one person_ responsible that all this came ab…

> This is what makes me somewhat feel that this focus on her is not quite fair. Thought experiment: if you saw an article titled "Jony Ive: The Man Behind The iPhone" would you be commenting on how unfair it is to single him out? After all, he just designed the thing, a huge team of people built the software and the hardware that actually made it possible.

this is hard to say, tbh.

first: by alluding to Ive, you insert a gender component. i don't want to make this about gender - which is what happened itt. as mentioned, i think the difference in focus is because of geo-cultural reasons. another piece of evidence for this hypothesis comes from the following: over here, the EU also gets a lot of praise for providing the main chunk of the funding for the project. a quick check tells me that this detail is often omitted in US articles about the project. also, a note on myself: i work in a field where the majority of people are female. so is my boss. her work is great and i love working here. at the same time, i am aware that the bar to get here was higher for my female colleagues than it is for men. also, i see the glass ceiling having an effect on the careers of my sisters and my female friends. and i am painfully aware of the struggles that my mum and other women of her generation had/have to go through. so i consider myself a feminist, in the sense that i believe that we should have full equality and that we do not have it yet.

second: think iphone, i think jobs. so what "Jony Ive: The Man Behind The iPhone" would imply to me is that Ive is _the one person_ that had the biggest impact on the development of the iphone. i don't know enough about Ive to evaluate this. but here's the thing: if it turned out that another person contributed as much if not more than Ive, then i'd say: hey, it's nice that the article introduces Ive and gives him some credit, but let's not exaggerate and let's not forget about the other people who have also greatly contributed to the project.

edit: to clarify: i find it hard to say, because it's somewhat hypothetical. i truly hope for myself that i would react the same way / that gender has no impact on my thought process.

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#298

Post by ummonk » Thu, Apr 11, 2019, 3:50 PM UTC

simias wrote: post #54

dalemyers wrote: post #44

I've read comments on Hacker News for many years, often finding them a useful source of additional information and insight into details from whatever the linked piece is. Sometimes these threads are full of only subtly veiled hatred and leave me with a feeling of disgust. This thread is one of those. There have been countless threads over the years where a man gets the credit for something a team has worked on and th…

In my experience this is common for this type of news about "prodigies" on HN. I remember the same types of reactions a few years ago about an article about a child who made the headlines (it even prompted a response by pg IIRC). Was it Malala? I can't remember. I think it's just that many people feel threatened or inadequate when they (naturally) compare themselves to these people. It's tempting to put them down so…

>In my experience this is common for this type of news about "prodigies" on HN. I remember the same types of reactions a few years ago about an article about a child who made the headlines (it even prompted a response by pg IIRC). Was it Malala? I can't remember.

For an example of this that involves a male, the media has been hyping the Ocean Cleanup project because it provides them with a great prodigy story, but people on HN have been rightly pushing back against its merits.

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#299

Post by hombre_fatal » Thu, Apr 11, 2019, 3:51 PM UTC

charliepark wrote: post #144

vonseel wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dumb attitude. For every extraordinarily recognized academic/professional person, there’s always going to be many times more people who are never publicly recognized for their achievements. Maybe they fly under the radar, maybe they picked the wrong subject to focus on or industry for career, maybe their timing is bad, maybe there’s nothing wrong with them. I’m proud of this (stranger to me) girl for accomplishing so…

Agreed with you that her accomplishment is great. As in engineering, it's helpful to use proper terminology with people: if using a gender is necessary for the narrative … - under 13: girl - 13 – 18: girl / teenager / young woman (depends on context; 16? – 25?) - 18 or over: woman

Eh, if it was a man, a lot of people would call them a guy and nobody would care. Girl is opposite both boy and guy and encompasses the range.

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#300

Post by slantyyz » Thu, Apr 11, 2019, 3:51 PM UTC

dvtrn wrote: post #294

slantyyz wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at the style guide, looks like the title may have been dropped because the length was already longer than 55 characters? I couldn't find a formal rule related to titles in headlines. As long as the BBC is consistent (and not biased because of gender or other factors), I don't think it's a big deal. From the BBC's style guide[1]: Doctor Use the title Dr (always abbreviated) for doctors of medicine, scientific…

I appreciate you taking the time to go and find what BBC’s editorial standards are for formal titles in their headlines. It’s entirely possible you’re right and this is why it was dropped, I should have gone and looked for their style guide the way you did. May have found my own answer much sooner but thanks nonetheless for that bit of information.

Given that it was the BBC, who in my mind would take a "stuffier" approach to these things, I was curious what was in their style guide.

This is an assumption, but I would think that all the recommendations in their style guide were put in there with at least some consideration.