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Ethiopian Airlines 737 MAX Investigation Preliminary Report

ecaa.gov.et

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 MAX Investigation Preliminary Report

#291

Post by internetzzzzzz »

throwaway713 wrote: post #248
rdiddly wrote: post #119

Reading through the chronology in section 1.1, it feels like a movie where the aircraft is a malevolent entity that's trying to kill them. So if I were in the cockpit I'm sure it would've been some mix of fear and anger. My life's not in danger though, so I'm only left with the anger, on their behalf, knowing some greedy bunch of assholes were effectively that malevolent entity, whose will was expressed via the aircr…

I've been on HN for years, and lately some of the downvotes have really been blowing my mind. See this post I made a couple of months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18937864 . Someone actually downvoted and argued against me that their dog's life is more valuable than "a stranger's". I have no doubt it's the same people downvoting your comment. I can't tell if these people are just really good trolls, or t…

Quit gettin' mad at video games.

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 MAX Investigation Preliminary Report

#292

Post by toufiqbarhamov »

MisterTea wrote: post #249
crysin wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really like this comment because I agree and was trying to write a comment that said this but not in a toxic way. People act like Hacker News is some bastion of discourse that is raised above the rest of the internet but it's not. Most of the comments I read are people stroking their ego's and enjoying the echo chamber.

http://n-gate.com Enjoy! :-)

Mother of god, that’s equal parts funny and just plain accurate.

Dell wonders if maybe their hiring process can be improved. Hackernews debates whether this is a cynical attempt to mine talent from previously-overlooked seams or a genuine attempt to treat human resources as human beings. Some Hackernews consider labeling such personnel so their specific status is on display at all times, an idea that nobody got from Nazi concentration camps.

Hole in one. Sometimes the best thing to do is just log off and remember that some people would argue about the correct oil used to boil them alive.

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 MAX Investigation Preliminary Report

#293

Post by tmd83 »

cjbprime wrote: post #231
geofft wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "greedy bunch of assholes" are the Boeing execs who optimized for profit over the lives of those pilots and their passengers. (I thought that was pretty clear from the comment, fwiw.) I think it's been pretty thoroughly established at this point that an underlying design constraint in the MCAS was that it was easier for Boeing to get a 737-with-modifications approved than a new airplane, despite the engines being…

Agree on the consensus. There's a piece of additional flavor, which is that as I understand it Boeing proposed building a new type of plane as an a320neo competitor, and the airlines announced that they'd only buy it if it's a 737 subtype to avoid having to retrain their pilots. It's not just "Boeing doesn't want to pay for certifications", but also -- and perhaps primarily -- "Airlines don't want to pay for training…

That doesn't really excuse Boeing though. The airline might what whatever but it's Boeing's responsibility to tell them something's not possible. Airbus didn't do this hack (as far as we know) so if Boeing didn't they would have just gotten into a tougher competition. The challenge that Boeing faced is the same as Airbus or any other manufacturer. The airlines at the end would have to buy planes to continue their service with whatever plane available. Boeing from all evidence made for them available an unsafe plane. It's unlikely to happen but a fair amount of people should be put in jail for this for a long long time but I doubt that will happen though.

And FAA is another sad excuse these days it seems. One doesn't let trivial things self certify and they let an airlines company self certify critical parts of a plane. What a joke.

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 MAX Investigation Preliminary Report

#294

Post by tyingq »

geofft wrote: post #268
VBprogrammer wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to add an extra element to what you've already said. It's quite likely that the pilots themselves would have been reluctant to accept another entry level narrow body jet. In the current climate it's often the pilots themselves who are paying for the type rating, at least the first one they acquire.

That's fair, but also, salaries for pilots are not great, and Boeing's former CEO got a salary of $865K/year + $1.3M/year bonus + stock and now that he's retired gets a pension of $730K/year. I'm sort of curious what exactly it would have cost Boeing to say, "This is not a 737, but we will pay to retrain any 737-trained pilot who's interested." (Which still would have given them a negotiating advantage over Airbus!)

"salaries for pilots are not great"

Varies with seniority and employer, but:

"The average Southwest pilot made $230,626 in 2015, according to the most recent data from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology Airline Data Project"

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/southwest-airlines/2016/...

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 MAX Investigation Preliminary Report

#295

Post by xoa »

late2part wrote: post #280
icebraining wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just erase your account. There's actually no way of doing that on HN.

How does HN comply w/ GDPR?

Why would it? Y Combinator is out of Mountain View, not in the EU. I doubt HN would offer special deletion privileges for any other polity in the world either unless they felt like it, everyone gets the same terms of US law and HN ToS.

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 MAX Investigation Preliminary Report

#296

Post by tmd83 »

Rooster61 wrote: post #7

> The crew performed runaway stabilizer checklist and put the stab trim cutout switch to cutout position and confirmed that the manual trim operation was not working. This is very damning to Boeing. It's precisely the procedure they prescribed and intended to mitigate possible MCAS caused trim runaway. In light of the fact that they put this in place as a justification for moving the engines forward without reclassif…

I'm not versed in the terminologies. What I understood was told previously is that

In similar condition (nose down) in other plane just pulling the stick would work but with MCAS you have shut it down using some switch and just the stick won't work.

And now the report is saying even that switch doesn't work? That one MCAS goes bonkers there's essentially no recourse?

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 MAX Investigation Preliminary Report

#297

Post by ars »

dboreham wrote: post #269
Rooster61 wrote: post #7

> The crew performed runaway stabilizer checklist and put the stab trim cutout switch to cutout position and confirmed that the manual trim operation was not working. This is very damning to Boeing. It's precisely the procedure they prescribed and intended to mitigate possible MCAS caused trim runaway. In light of the fact that they put this in place as a justification for moving the engines forward without reclassif…

Wondering why Boeing stock went up today...

Because this report does not indicate a new problem, but rather the same one as before, which has already been accounted for in the stock price.

It's a truism of stocks that they move opposite of what you would expect when the final result comes in, and that's because they have already moved when news of whatever it is is released.

Eg: Company announces we will get 1 billion cash for free, stock goes up. when they actually get the cash, stock will go down.

Replace that scenario with whatever is making news about the company (mergers, new sales, personal changes, etc, etc).

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 MAX Investigation Preliminary Report

#298

Post by 1000units »

thatoneuser wrote: post #215
rdiddly wrote: post #119

Reading through the chronology in section 1.1, it feels like a movie where the aircraft is a malevolent entity that's trying to kill them. So if I were in the cockpit I'm sure it would've been some mix of fear and anger. My life's not in danger though, so I'm only left with the anger, on their behalf, knowing some greedy bunch of assholes were effectively that malevolent entity, whose will was expressed via the aircr…

I swear I've encountered propaganda bots/shills on HN lately. Maybe it's just my imagination or maybe there are just people out there who wanna argue in favor of megacorps, but I've been getting downvoted and argued with lately for saying pretty obvious things lately. Anyway, I'm on your side. Two planes falling from the sky killing hundreds I mean that's a non negligible percentage of 9/11 casualties. Maybe we don't…

Try saying something bad about Google.

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 MAX Investigation Preliminary Report

#299

Post by [deleted] »

Domenic_S wrote: post #117
usrusr wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being capable of performing a glide without electricity does not necessarily imply that a no-power glide can safely be entered from extreme conditions like diving too fast with trim set to insane.

Why is it possible to set the trim to insane? Is there a legitimate scenario where that would be used?

[deleted]

Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 MAX Investigation Preliminary Report

#300

Post by [deleted] »

Domenic_S wrote: post #117
usrusr wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being capable of performing a glide without electricity does not necessarily imply that a no-power glide can safely be entered from extreme conditions like diving too fast with trim set to insane.

Why is it possible to set the trim to insane? Is there a legitimate scenario where that would be used?

[deleted]
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