In Australia we now have
75-85% of women in -
* Nursing
* School teaching
* Child Care
* Elderly care
Its predicted between 2020-2020 we will have NO MEN in those fields of work
Mah "Diversity" and " Inclusion "
Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men
291–300 of 626 posts
Re: Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men
#292Earlier quoted context omitted.
High school, college, any STEM fields are all overwhelmingly biased in terms of favoring women. My daughter who is finishing the primary school has recently asked me if it's okay if she doesn't like math, but likes animals and babies. Sounds like some pressure is being applied...
Or maybe sexual differences cause men and women, on average, to have different interests. edit: thanks for pointing out that I misread which type of pressure is being applied.
you're assuming that men and women have sexual differences? it's 2019.
Re: Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men
#293Earlier quoted context omitted.
> 57% of college graduates are women What's the percentage female graduates in STEM fields? The 57% may not be representative for the fields which matter for engineers. Not saying the delta is big, I honestly don't know and am curious.
Hey so I know this is n of 1 and off-topic, but as a liberal arts student, I went from music to signal processing to music theory to music analytics to generative music to software engineer. There can be a lot of STEM in non-STEM degrees. I did take a number of CS, acoustics, and electrical courses as a music major, but my degree still says music. I know once-English majors with a similar story of a passion for what…
For n=1, sure, not necessarily.
Re: Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men
#294Earlier quoted context omitted.
> 57% of college graduates are women What's the percentage female graduates in STEM fields? The 57% may not be representative for the fields which matter for engineers. Not saying the delta is big, I honestly don't know and am curious.
Hey so I know this is n of 1 and off-topic, but as a liberal arts student, I went from music to signal processing to music theory to music analytics to generative music to software engineer. There can be a lot of STEM in non-STEM degrees. I did take a number of CS, acoustics, and electrical courses as a music major, but my degree still says music. I know once-English majors with a similar story of a passion for what…
Roughly 1/3 of the engineers that I've encountered in my ~17 year career have music degrees (and one guy who went to ballet school and later wrote one of the most well-known O'Reilly books).
And this is mostly on the ops side.
Re: Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men
#295To me the key takeaway is that google systematically underpays both men and women.
I don't work at Google, but my SO and many friends do. I will bitch slap anyone over there complaining about being underpaid. Most people can only dream of the compensation packages they give out. Nobody at Google is "underpaid", maybe just less extremely well compensated than others.
Re: Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men
#296Reminiscent of Simpson's Paradox, the most famous example being a gender discrimination lawsuit alleging UC Berkeley discriminated against women in admissions (57% men vs. 43% women). It turned out there WAS bias - in favor of the women! "The lawsuit triggered a study. The study results showed that not only were women not discriminated against, but that women had a statistically significant advantage! Here’s what hap…
There was no lawsuit in that Berkeley case. The article's source also does not claim there was a lawsuit. The author made that up out of whole cloth.
The real reason for the Berkeley study is that the seeming acceptance disparity worried administrators, who proactively asked Bickel to look into it. https://outline.com/2HMrKV
Re: Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men
#297Earlier quoted context omitted.
All the talk of discrimination against women requires that they be helpless damsels in distress in all this, when their dominance of college graduation suggests the opposite. Biology is not "preventing" women, it's directing their inclination. Women have a ton of opportunities, and it's just as likely that as CS blew up they decided they didn't want to and didn't need to take on the long hours and relative social iso…
>Biology is not "preventing" women, it's directing their inclination. Right, absolutely, biology is what inclines women to not be programmers. And it's not at all things like lack of parental leave policies in most software firms that would allow their partners to stay at home should a child be born in their household, or a million other workplace and policy matters. It's biology, the conversation is over.
I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic, but yes; it seems to be biology.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/02/the-more...
Re: Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men
#298High school, college, any STEM fields are all overwhelmingly biased in terms of favoring women. 57% of college graduates are women. Men are not only getting the short end of the stick but are being told by every voice that they are privileged, it’s their fault, they are bad whereas women have sooooo many extra programs and positive reinforcement to succeed. No one with a straight face can tell me women in entry level…
I've never worked in a field where I could compete for a job with a woman, they'd always get first dibs. It is pretty unfair.
However a distinction must be made between the formal systems (extremely sexist favouring women), informal systems (potentially extremely sexist favouring men) and workplace environment (women are continuously sexually propositioned; pretty overwhelming evidence for that IMO).
Making the formal systems sexist is a stupid response to the informal systems being sexist. I wish that people would stop advocating that and instead work on the informal issue - if it isn't due to innate ability (a safe bet) then there must be something that can be done. The propositioning thing is a bit of a poser though, it is so pervasive that I suspect it points to deeper issues.
Also the anecdotal evidence is that if propositioning was successfully stamped out that would do crazy things to the fabric of how relationships get established. Might be a net good or bad.
Re: Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men
#299The gender wage gap is real in the sense that there is a gap, but when you analyze it, they are comparing apples to oranges. I'm sure everyone here knows this. https://data.oecd.org/earnwage/gender-wage-gap.htm The countries with the highest wage gaps are the countries with the most equality in the workplace. Women in Korea are not treated poorly. The important thing though is the people proposing that the wage gap i…
> Women in Korea are not treated poorly. Do you know this for sure? Developed East Asian countries are some of the worst in terms of work equality for women, particularly if they want to have children. Not a good example to use.
Japan and Korea are 'very gendered' countries.
Technically, everything could be equal, but men and women have much stronger gender roles there, it's very deeply ingrained into culture.
Re: Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men
#300Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've seen this first hand. I was hired into my position straight out of grad school. I noticed one of my colleagues (a black woman) was in a position below mine that paid about $20k less even though she had all the same knowledge and skills that I had. She had a PhD and had done a post-doc while I never even finished my PhD. She's older, more experienced, and better educated, yet somehow not qualified for my position…
Seems to me that if there is truly nothing more to this story , your colleague has a very clear lawsuit.
Negotiations also play a factor, 2 employees with the same tech skillset can have a different way of negotiating resulting in different salaries.