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Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

nytimes.com

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Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#291

Post by tedmiston »

_hardwaregeek wrote: post #177

I'm very curious to see the number of people start as CS and drop vs the number of people who end up as CS. I know at my school there's a lot of people who come in wanting to do CS but end up dropping and a decent amount of people who end up in the CS major either via other STEM majors or just randomly. Because of this churn, the intro classes need to be a lot bigger than the rest, simply to accommodate both sets of…

At my average small-to-mid-sized state school in the midwest, a typical CS drop rate from day 1 to graduation was ~3/4 either switched majors (mostly to business majors) or dropped out of school entirely. Technically it's probably even a bit higher than that because this is net of people switching into CS. Not sure how students who transfer schools are tracked.

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#292

Post by tedmiston »

tyler- wrote: post #57

Another idea to retain or hire faculty: let them have dual enrollment at tech companies and universities. Not sure if this is a good idea, or if it works. But I'd certainly be interested in studying the outcomes of it. Potentially could cause a conflict of interest in motivation of academic research vs industry driven research to profit the company, or even be used as a way to fast-track students to said company. Not…

My school had industry practicing adjuncts like this. It mostly works though adjunct comp is radically different than tenure track. Adjuncts did it because they enjoyed teaching or were seeking a more permanent professor position, not for the adjunct comp. There are definitely some perverse incentives around exam difficulty and grading.

We also had full-time instructors aka teaching professors (no research).

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#294

Post by Eridrus »

geebee wrote: post #221
rdelval wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fairly recent PhD graduate here (graduated last year). My observations are that the skills required to do a PhD are orthogonal to the skills required to pass FAANG interviews and, more importantly, to being a good software engineer. I don't dispute you can make a higher salary than a faculty member, even without working at a FAANG, but having a PhD won't automatically make you eligible to get such a job.

Interesting observation. I was under the impression that getting hired into research groups at a FAANG was a different process than getting hired as a SWE, and that you could bypass some of the whiteboard "find all sub matrices with matching determinants in an NxM matrix of arbitrary size" style questions. Those jobs, the SWE jobs, there's really no degree that will allow you to skip that gauntlet. But I think there…

Research groups at FAANG are pretty competitive too.

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#295

Post by ck425 »

woolvalley wrote: post #256
ck425 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really do need privilege. Not everyone has regular access to a computer or internet even these days. And not every is in an environment where it's considered ok to sit and tinker with software all day. More importantly we need people in our industry who have interests beyond just tinkering with things all days. We need balanced individuals who have skills beyond just code, who can look at problems from a wide arr…

If you don't have regular access to a computer & the internet, then American CS college is miles away by cost comparison. Like seriously, a $200 chromebook that you earn by working a local minimum wage job, a household that feeds and clothes you and your local public library wifi is what you would mostly need. The requirements for college far exceeds that by a mile.

The poster was walking widely about the industry as a whole not just college. And there are lots of scholarship students who had to work to help put food on the table, who couldn't afford a chromebook and the time to go tinker.

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#296

Post by ummonk »

invalidOrTaken wrote: post #259
saberience wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree. Most people simply don't work very hard. For a motivated person, 1 year on their own time can easily be enough time to replicate a bachelor's in CS. When I did my bachelor's I was a young dumb kid who partied a lot and wasted a lot of time. Now, 14 years later and tons of industry experience, I realize how trivial the material in my CS bachelors was and really the big problem is that most students don'…

> I realize how trivial the material in my CS bachelors was and really the big problem is that most students don't really work that hard. As someone who dropped out, worked in industry for a few years, and is now back as an undergrad(though in math, not CS), one thing that I feel is neglected in these discussions is the time-sucking effect of homework. When I was self-teaching as a dev, I could learn something, play…

This, so much this. Homework is an insane waste of time. Some people might need that level of tedious repetition to learn a concept, but generally it just detracts from actual learning.

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#298

Post by ummonk »

I wonder to what extent the barriers of entry for CS programs filter out some of the best future software engineers. Being laser-focused on getting all the homework done and maintaining a 4.0 GPA is generally not the same kind of personality that results in creative thinking and problem-solving skills.

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#299

Post by geebee »

Eridrus wrote: post #294
geebee wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting observation. I was under the impression that getting hired into research groups at a FAANG was a different process than getting hired as a SWE, and that you could bypass some of the whiteboard "find all sub matrices with matching determinants in an NxM matrix of arbitrary size" style questions. Those jobs, the SWE jobs, there's really no degree that will allow you to skip that gauntlet. But I think there…

Research groups at FAANG are pretty competitive too.

Competitive, yes, certainly. But is it competitive in the same way?

I’m other words, do “cracking the coding interview” style questions play as big a role?

EDIT: I figured, why not do a quick web search. I found this link:

http://matt-welsh.blogspot.com/2014/01/getting-job-at-google...

Just one POV, but it does confirm that PhD graduates do have to go through the same kind of coding exercises (at google) as anyone else. It is worth noting that this is the case if you're applying for SWE positions, where a PhD might not really confer that much of an advantage. Again, I'm not sure if this would be the case if you were, say, getting hired as an AI researcher for a lab.

So, this link sheds some light, thought I still don't know about research positions specifically.

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#300

Post by rdelval »

geebee wrote: post #299
Eridrus wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Research groups at FAANG are pretty competitive too.

Competitive, yes, certainly. But is it competitive in the same way? I’m other words, do “cracking the coding interview” style questions play as big a role? EDIT: I figured, why not do a quick web search. I found this link: http://matt-welsh.blogspot.com/2014/01/getting-job-at-google... Just one POV, but it does confirm that PhD graduates do have to go through the same kind of coding exercises (at google) as anyone el…

I do know someone who ended up at IBM Research from my lab. He was collaborating with them for his research before he graduated so I'm not sure if he even had to interview after finishing.

According to Glassdoor, Facebook research candidates are given the typical interview questions as part of the process: https://www.glassdoor.com/Interview/Facebook-Research-Scient...

Same at Google: https://www.glassdoor.com/Interview/Google-Research-Scientis...

For what it's worth, though I've never particularly sought out a research position in industry, I haven't really come across too many listings which leads me to believe the positions are few and far in between.

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