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Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

nytimes.com

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Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#291

Post by wpietri »

m4x wrote: post #203
wpietri wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed 100% on the sidewalk-riding. The other day I was outside a restaurant waiting for a table. I moved back one step to let some people by and felt something brush my coat. It was some idiot riding one of those powered rental scooters downhill. 15 MPH at least, and given that it was downhill, maybe more. Two steps back and I would have been in the emergency room.

You are allowed to call people out for riding dangerously. They might not appreciate it at the time, but as long as you aren't aggressively rude they will probably ride more slowly the next time they get on a scooter. Eventually personal transport will be normal and everybody will know how and where to use it appropriately, but it will take a bit of time and practice to get to that point.

Tell me, step by step, how you think I will politely but effectively call out somebody going by me at 15-20 mph. Use diagrams if you need.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#292

Post by wpietri »

randyrand wrote: post #249
wpietri wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not impossible, but it's unrealistic to expect that everybody who can poke their finger on an app button will do this. If scooters require knowledge, thought, and skill to ride well on a sidewalk, then the two obvious answers are a) require training and a road test, or b) ban them on sidewalks. I don't much care which we go with, but having recently almost gotten flattened by some rental e-scooter idiot on the s…

Society does not learn etiquette over night. lots of things only have etiquette and no laws. Laws are nice too, but getting people to follow them is equally tricky.

There is no particular reason for me to think casual app-based renters will ever learn this etiquette, especially given the high tourist density in SF.

And regardless, if etiquette is needed for safe and effective sharing of the sidewalks, it's up to these scooter companies to make sure that etiquette training happens before they accept money and turn somebody loose. Otherwise it's classic "privatize the gains and socialize the losses" foolishness.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#293

Post by burlesona »

androidgirl wrote: post #184

Are any of these electric scooters worthwhile for hilly commutes? I live about a mile from the closest train stop, and currently I walk to and from because the entire way is steep coming back, at 10% grade. My gut tells me a scooter would need to be unreasonably powerful to work in this area.

I have an EcoReco L5 and it handles hills alright, but it depends on how heavy the rider is to be honest. I think my block is about a 20% grade and it can’t really do that, but 5-10% should be okay.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#294

Post by dcosson »

groth wrote: post #275

These scooters aren't suppose to replace lyft or bart or muni. They're suppose to let you get from 24th mission to 16th mission with minimum context switching & waiting. This translates less well to manhattan but would (if theft weren't a problem) to Brooklyn, most 2nd tier cities in the U.S., and college campuses. I think it's a good investment.

Why not Manhattan? The sidewalk docking might be an issue in some neighborhoods but if they managed to get street docking areas like the citi bikes it would be a perfect fit in Manhattan as well.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#295

Post by wild_preference »

wpietri wrote: post #292
randyrand wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society does not learn etiquette over night. lots of things only have etiquette and no laws. Laws are nice too, but getting people to follow them is equally tricky.

There is no particular reason for me to think casual app-based renters will ever learn this etiquette, especially given the high tourist density in SF. And regardless, if etiquette is needed for safe and effective sharing of the sidewalks, it's up to these scooter companies to make sure that etiquette training happens before they accept money and turn somebody loose. Otherwise it's classic "privatize the gains and so…

Well, it's not much different than cars then where people drive foolishly all the time and there aren't enough cops to catch them all.

For example, I almost never see people reserve the passing lane for going fast or passing which is dangerous. People almost never use blinkers. Except, unlike scooters, they are driving vehicles that weigh two tons and are going 65+ mph. And they even require licenses.

So that's a pretty low bar, and not very damning if scooters have some etiquette issues.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#296

Post by wild_preference »

Sephr wrote: post #58

Am I the only one who wants to see more seated scooter innovation? I would much prefer riding one of these self-balancing scooters/microcycles to the standing scooters that everyone is using. 1. http://rynomotors.com (launches April 16, 2019) 2. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/newest-fat-tyre-elect... 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcZk9zn82-g

One wheel is just too unstable. Forget ever hitting any speed on one.

Scooters and ebikes have the advantage of all energy going into propulsion instead of stabilization.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#298

Post by cycrutchfield »

wpietri wrote: post #291
m4x wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are allowed to call people out for riding dangerously. They might not appreciate it at the time, but as long as you aren't aggressively rude they will probably ride more slowly the next time they get on a scooter. Eventually personal transport will be normal and everybody will know how and where to use it appropriately, but it will take a bit of time and practice to get to that point.

Tell me, step by step, how you think I will politely but effectively call out somebody going by me at 15-20 mph. Use diagrams if you need.

Use your voice

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#299

Post by TulliusCicero »

ams6110 wrote: post #262
TulliusCicero wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why you specifically need physically protected bike lanes. Painted bike lanes are nearly worthless. Nobody would accept having "painted walk lanes" instead of sidewalks, but for some reason this is considered an acceptable norm for bikes.

Are they better than nothing, which is what was there before?

Marginally. They do help some cyclists, and they reserve space for future, better bike lanes. On the other hand, they're inefficient because most people rightfully determine they're unsafe and won't use them, which gives ammo to anti-bike crusaders.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#300

Post by stevekemp »

Damogran6 wrote: post #201
sonnyblarney wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly this just may spur people to use bicycles, or moped style scooters as are common in Europe. The type of people to use these scooters are exactly the types that would likely use a bike. Or a Vespa.

Til it snows.

Helsinki has some docked-bicycles which cost €20/year if you take journeys of 30 minutes or less. They seem to appear in spring and disappear in autumn, so no cheap bicycles in the winter.

That said there are a _lot_ of people who continue to cycle even in winter (-25'C is coldest I've experienced over the past three years), and the snow/ice doesn't seem to stop them. Though of course fat-tyres, and ice-studs are a given.

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