If we think that not enough people are voting, the way to solve this is NOT through get-out-the-vote efforts, voter registration drives, and tools like this to make it easier to cast a vote. These are not the bottleneck. Voting may be a duty, but it's one that carries a lot of responsibility. Getting ignorant people to cast poorly-informed votes does not help our society. And I think that people realize this. So when…
I'm going to be brutally honest: Voting for candidates is detached and unclear without having prior information or knowledge about the candidates readily available. Not knowing who/what I'm voting for or the impact of my vote for a candidate I know nothing about increases my apathy towards voting. (I know I deserve the "shame on you for ruining democracy!" remarks). Having some sort of TL;DR for each candidate on the…
“A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming
291–300 of 377 posts
Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming
#292I personally think blockchain powered voting solutions with a PKI backed ID Card like my Estonian e-Residency card could be a fairly strong way of authentication.
Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming
#293If we think that not enough people are voting, the way to solve this is NOT through get-out-the-vote efforts, voter registration drives, and tools like this to make it easier to cast a vote. These are not the bottleneck. Voting may be a duty, but it's one that carries a lot of responsibility. Getting ignorant people to cast poorly-informed votes does not help our society. And I think that people realize this. So when…
Without any moorings or context the word ignorance loses all meaning and value. Accusing any group xyz or a nebulous 'other' of ignorance is like accusing HN readers of ignorance of history, because it is logically and physically impossible to prove any such assertion of any group, and you are left with circular logic that points to source assertion as evidence ie uninformed prejudice.
Democracy is about everyone voting, it does not seek to make a judgement or value claims on individuals in any way and if you accept the concept your only job is vote and support the unequivocal right of everyone to vote.
Any arguments about individuals that disqualify them in your personal opinion would need a wider argument against democracy as a concept.
Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming
#294Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would like to know more.
If this was a subtle starship trooper reference, bravo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdrjzE1SE58 (depictions of violence, satire) For those that don't know, Starship troopers is a scathing satire about how "war makes fascist of us all".
Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming
#295Earlier quoted context omitted.
Oregon's had voting by mail exclusively, and, it _automatically_ registers voters in a number of places, so unless you are fully off the grid, you're pretty much gonna get a ballot. Consequently, Oregon has had consistently higher turnouts in most elections. Each vote gets the signature reviewed by a person, one at a time. I actually had my ballot put on hold this year because the signature wasn't quite close enough…
No two signatures I've ever written actually look the same. I do wonder how this might affect people like me!
I was stopped temporarily last night at the polls after the poll worker scanned my ID and had me sign. She said they're not the same signature, and I'm like, "lmao, yeah, no, no they're not. I gave up on my signature a long time ago."
Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming
#296We trust our financial system and it already has decades of fraud detection. Our voting system should be through something similar with all history, fraud detection, voter verification and more. Our current voting system is already rife with fraud with little remedy and recounts are difficult, we need to expect fraud and move to a digital system that does have fraud detection in it similar to our financial system. Th…
Banks solve a different problem. The reason why banks can be computerised does not apply to voting. Bank functioning is observable by the people concerned: You can see if money you didn't spend left your account, and if you failed to get paid. Failures are detected very quickly. Voting has two key differences: * Voting is anonymous (to render intimidation and bribery of voters ineffective). * It's not sufficient that…
I disagree, fraud detection and security is the best we currently have and people trust it due to these areas.
> Bank functioning is observable by the people concerned: You can see if money you didn't spend left your account, and if you failed to get paid. Failures are detected very quickly.
I can observe my votes were recorded correctly, others can't see them, data would be anonymized/fingerprinted/hashed when counting.
> Voting is anonymous (to render intimidation and bribery of voters ineffective).
Financial systems do not allow other people to see your data/account amounts and more.
Who people vote for is easily determined by metadata and you really think security by obscurity on our current system is really that private? Lots of holes and ways to get voter data in security by obscurity. You don't think the voting machines and secretary of state offices/recorders have that data? No need if digital and verifiable.
I think people have a false sense of security how private their votes are.
> It's not sufficient that citizens votes are counted correctly, it is necessary that no spurious votes are also counted.
You can easily anonymize data when running reports and fingerprint/hash results. Patterns and anomalies are much easier to find in a data based system, just as fraud is detected by the digital financial system.
> The means by which electronic banking is rendered safe are therefore much harder to apply.
Agree to disagree.
> Voting must also not just be secure, but be demonstrably secure to the voters. With paper voting, you can go and watch the votes being counted.
People trust their financial system but wouldn't if it was all on paper by some individual counted and just given their word that it was correct...
There can still be a paper trail and reports/vote records can be kept forever.
> At every stage of the process, the answer to 'how do you show the public that the process has integrity' is helped by the fact that the votes are on macroscopic objects whose movement is obvious. Electronic voting systems lack this feature.
There wouldn't be any blackbox or hackable machines to trust, you trust that your vote was securely counted online, in an app or if you want down at the paper ballot and entered into this system. But again, financial transactions are trusted, I don't trust random ATMs that are like random voting machines, I trust the app/site where my financial data resides. The middle man is security by obscurity and more insecure currently than if it was truly online/digital.
Our current elections system are all a patchwork of hackable areas. If we had a better standard voting system that expected hacking and fraud, like financials, we'd be better off on security, verifiability and reliability without election day games and suppression filled with security by obscurity.
Votes currently go into the ether, into various unverifiable counting systems, counted by people who have biases, entered into black box voting systems that are hackable, transferred differently from these precincts to the recorder and there are so many holes along the way it is not trustworthy in any way. Your vote could go down the memory hole and you'd never know.
Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming
#297I don't like how this article tries to generalize smart-phone voting itself as the problem. The trouble is this particular app. I personally think blockchain powered voting solutions with a PKI backed ID Card like my Estonian e-Residency card could be a fairly strong way of authentication.
How do you protect against a compromission of:
* The mobile phone's OS (by a virus, by the manufacturer)
* The app's server code
* The app's hosting providers
We are speaking about governments, or very rich parties trying to change to outcome of elections here.
Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming
#298I know how to solve this problem. Upload a speech by each candidate to YouTube on election day. At the end of the day whomever gets the least downvotes wins. Google's CAPTCHA and profiling will protect us from election tampering and make sure only the people who are allowed to vote will vote. Might need CAPTCHA 4, though. The one where you go through a DNA test to verify your uniqueness, then get an RFID implant for…
Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming
#299I don't like how this article tries to generalize smart-phone voting itself as the problem. The trouble is this particular app. I personally think blockchain powered voting solutions with a PKI backed ID Card like my Estonian e-Residency card could be a fairly strong way of authentication.
Just like this app, you seem to focus on protecting against the voter (or someone using the voter's phone). How do you protect against a compromission of: * The mobile phone's OS (by a virus, by the manufacturer) * The app's server code * The app's hosting providers We are speaking about governments, or very rich parties trying to change to outcome of elections here.
Embedding displays into cards isn't impossible, BofA does it for OTPs already. A combination could ensure that users know the vote they're casting by confirming it on a secure hardware token.
With that done, you could upload that vote to a blockchain based system that's auditable, but anonymized.
But I can't give you a good answer to "what if someone steals the phone and card". One solution is to have remote election officers that verify your identity via the camera in real-time as you cast the vote. They could look at your face, or even read your fingerprint off the camera (I know that's possible because my country lets banks do that).
You'd only be able to cast the vote through devices with good enough cameras and under good enough lightening and you may have to wait a little while, but it'll be secure and you won't have to travel — especially if you're registered in a distant state or district.
It's better than nothing.
Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming
#300Earlier quoted context omitted.
Banks solve a different problem. The reason why banks can be computerised does not apply to voting. Bank functioning is observable by the people concerned: You can see if money you didn't spend left your account, and if you failed to get paid. Failures are detected very quickly. Voting has two key differences: * Voting is anonymous (to render intimidation and bribery of voters ineffective). * It's not sufficient that…
> Banks solve a different problem. The reason why banks can be computerized does not apply to voting. I disagree, fraud detection and security is the best we currently have and people trust it due to these areas. > Bank functioning is observable by the people concerned: You can see if money you didn't spend left your account, and if you failed to get paid. Failures are detected very quickly. I can observe my votes we…