Earlier quoted context omitted.
Problem is that you don't know what the good regulations is because you don't know their consequences in the long run. Clinton wanted to allow people to afford and buy a home because he knew for many of them that was the way out. That's why he put out executive orders back in the 90ies under his National Homeownership Strategy where they introduced more flexible underwriting rules. Among many other things he put out…
Just because a problem is hard doesn't mean we should abandon it. Maybe start with limiting the "instruments" available for gambling investing. Get rid of that one that bets on market volatility, for example (although that problem kind of solved itself as the investors in it lost their money).
The Real Cost of the 2008 Financial Crisis
291–300 of 404 posts
Re: The Real Cost of the 2008 Financial Crisis
#292Earlier quoted context omitted.
Confidence in the market , and preventing panic was the highest priority, which is why no bank executive was punished in any meaningful way. Frontline did a great piece on this, which I watched years ago. Not sure if this is it: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/meltdown/ I believe it also explains why the election hacking of 2016 wasn't and isn't being addressed fully. If the US were to admit actual votes were…
When people who know what they're talking about talk about "election hacking," they know that no actual hacking took place. They were Facebook ads. That's it.
Re: The Real Cost of the 2008 Financial Crisis
#293Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, I want to know that, also. My understanding is that anything explicitly backed by the government (Fannie Mae) was your standard 30-year mortgage with the normal requirements. The interest-only loans, variable-rate loans, etc. were all originated through the brokers like Countrywide and packaged/sold as securities.
"In 2006, Fannie and Freddie insured 70% of all subprime loans so they needed to keep these loans viable" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_takeover_of_Fannie_Mae...
> As the economy worsens and Election Day approaches, a conservative campaign that blames the global financial crisis on a government push to make housing more affordable to lower-class Americans has taken off on talk radio and e-mail.
> Commentators say that's what triggered the stock market meltdown and the freeze on credit. They've specifically targeted the mortgage finance giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which the federal government seized on Sept. 6, contending that lending to poor and minority Americans caused Fannie's and Freddie's financial problems.
> Federal housing data reveal that the charges aren't true, and that the private sector, not the government or government-backed companies, was behind the soaring subprime lending at the core of the crisis.
Furthermore:
> Federal Reserve Board data show that:
> More than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages in 2006 were issued by private lending institutions. Private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers that year. Only one of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006 was directly subject to the housing law that's being lambasted by conservative critics.
FURTHERMORE
> But these loans, and those to low- and moderate-income families represent a small portion of overall lending....Between 2004 and 2006, when subprime lending was exploding, Fannie and Freddie went from holding a high of 48 percent of the subprime loans that were sold into the secondary market to holding about 24 percent...During those same explosive three years, private investment banks — not Fannie and Freddie — dominated the mortgage loans that were packaged and sold into the secondary mortgage market.
And then we get to the only 70% in the article:
> fueled demand for mortgage-backed securities, the technical term for mortgages that are sold to a company, usually an investment bank, which then pools and sells them into the secondary mortgage market. About 70 percent of all U.S. mortgages are in this secondary mortgage market, according to the Federal Reserve.
I mean what the hell is going on here? You link to a wikipedia quote which points to an article methodically dismantaling the case you are making, which flatly contradicts the wikipedian citing the article, and whose only connection to your comment is that they both have a "70%" in them, though referring to different things (secondary market dominated by investment banks VS fannie and freddie, NOT THE SAME THING)
> in 2006 that led to Fannie and Freddie losing even more market share in the booming subprime market...mortgage brokers, who also weren't subject to federal regulation or the CRA, originated most of the subprime loans... only one-third of all CRA loans had interest rates high enough to be considered sub-prime
This is honestly the first time on hackernews I've felt like I'm talking to a shill.
Re: The Real Cost of the 2008 Financial Crisis
#294Re: The Real Cost of the 2008 Financial Crisis
#295Earlier quoted context omitted.
I haven't a clue about the whether the bailouts were important or not. What I feel like I would have liked is for the bailouts to happen AND the top 20 to 100 people from every financial institution to have gone to prison for at least 10 years. The president of Goldman Sachs, the president (or ex-President) of Lehman, etc... etc... What it seems like from the outside is they screwed the world over and completely got…
Sending people to prison involves prosecuting people for breaking laws somehow, which isn’t easy. You can’t just send them to jail on a whim. Even if what they did was wrong, unless there was a law against it the government didn’t really have many options here. They could make up some laws after the fact to prevent future abuse, but cannot make them retroactive.
You could have prosecuted and imprisoned all of MERS's officers for racketeering.
The first happened in teensy numbers, the second, not at all.
(copyedited)
Re: The Real Cost of the 2008 Financial Crisis
#296Earlier quoted context omitted.
It did help out some families though. We were able to get into our home using a 5 year 0% interest loan. It was the only way we could afford it. Later we refinanced it to a normal 30 year loan, but there is no way we could have afforded that when we were first getting started. I'm not sure how people just starting out are able to afford homes now. Our home's theoretical value has doubled in price in the last few year…
I'm curious about your situation. Can you provide additional financial information? Price of the home, area of the country, salary at date of purchase.
From my perspective they skipped a step or two and some of the difficulty came from that. I started by renting an apartment with a friend and saved up enough for a down-payment on a normal loan in a condo over two years. It's been five more years since then, and only now would I consider a house (though don't really want to move yet).
Re: The Real Cost of the 2008 Financial Crisis
#297It seems like, relatively speaking, Iceland sailed through this by acting like capitalists: they let the loans fail, consumers took a haircut, and bankers were sent to jail. Is this a worthwhile comparison or were there fundamental differences that I (very likely) don't understand?
Re: The Real Cost of the 2008 Financial Crisis
#298Earlier quoted context omitted.
You see a similar thing with student loans. You can't make any reasonable system work when you set the requirements to be that everyone should be able to afford to go to college and free market lenders are the ones responsible for making that happen. I imagine that the first condition is one that most people agree one. So instead of making college cheaper for those people who can't afford it, we decided that we need…
What is the easier, little-bit socialist solution to home ownership?
The price of housing in many high cost of living is completely unrelated to how much it cost to build the apartment building.
Or in other words, the actual construction of the building is the easy part. It is the government that is getting in the way of reduced prices
Re: The Real Cost of the 2008 Financial Crisis
#299Did Lehman run index funds? What happened to their customers? What would happen today if a firm like Schwab or Fidelity suddenly went bankrupt? Would their S&P 500 index funds (Such as SWPPX or FFFFX) drop to zero, wiping out customer’s retirement?
Re: The Real Cost of the 2008 Financial Crisis
#300Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Government shares a significant portion of the blame for this crisis. Agreed, I think the sheer size of the crisis relates back to deliberate policies to support sub-prime lending. The idea was to help people to afford homes even though they would not normally be considered a good risk. But opening this up created a vast new market, like adding a wider bottom tier to an already giant pyramid. Along with the vast siz…
You, along with very many other people, are assuming the banks were convinced by the government to do something they didn't want to do. You mustn't forget that giving loans to people you know won't be able to pay them back, and lying about their ability to do so, is an absolutely classic form of fraud. Bankers lie their asses off, make big bucks in bonuses, and their banks in the long run are fucked, or not (perhaps…
Not everything has an evil agenda behind it. Sometimes the reasons are fairly ordinary and boring.