My Story as a Homeless Developer • Hacker News Board

Re: My Story as a Homeless Developer

#291

Post by eric_b » Sat, Sep 08, 2018, 4:55 PM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #289

eric_b wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree it's a blind spot, but also a kind of arrogance and privilege. I know all about the unadvertised work world because I lived it for years. Many other Americans do too, but not the kind of people who frequent this forum. A gross generalization of course, but in my experience it is primarily naturalized white males, Hispanics of both genders (some immigrant some not), and African immigrants that are "fluent" in…

I guess I would love to hear more nuts and bolts information on how this gets done. And that's not what I'm hearing.

I think you're overthinking it. It's mostly just asking around. Go to a blue collar bar and chat with some of the guys sitting there. In small towns the VFWs or Legions are good choices. Talk to the ones drinking by themselves and that look dirty or sweaty. Hang out at gas stations or a McDonalds. All the people that work these kinds of jobs need to use restrooms and eat. These are two very popular places for them to do those things.

Walk through an industrial park and ask the receptionist at each one if they're looking for help. I got several warehouse jobs this way.

Call lawn and landscaping services. A lot of these are small single owner operations. Most of these guys are too busy to look for people formally, but they can use the help. I have a buddy who runs a lawn service, he's paying $20/hr no questions asked for help. He's desperate to find people but he's not advertising on the internet because he's not tech savvy.

A little empathy goes a long way.

Re: My Story as a Homeless Developer

#292

Post by darpa_escapee » Sat, Sep 08, 2018, 4:56 PM UTC

manigandham wrote: post #288

watwut wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as someone who knows people who immigrated, the cooperation and help thing were huge factor - especially so among those who did low skill work. People moved in groups or seeked places where they knew somebody. It is hard life and they are not doing it completely alone without cooperation because that would make it even harder. (Offtopic: refusal to accept that people do help each other, give each other advic…

Speaking as someone who is an immigrant, there are just as many families who are on their own. Culture aspect is real but it's highly localized, even to immigrants, meaning you don't get help from "your people" just because you share the same origin.

I'm curious, where are you from and what do you do?

Re: My Story as a Homeless Developer

#293

Post by shagie » Sat, Sep 08, 2018, 5:12 PM UTC

justaaron wrote: post #254

eric_b wrote: post #24

As the author discovered, reliable transportation and a permanent residence are often prerequisites for many office jobs. However, I do know that in Iowa there are many other kinds of jobs, lots of which would pay a wage sufficient to get back on one's feet, and have more lenient requirements. Perhaps the author needs to get any job vs. a programming job? Establishing a place to live, getting consistent income, and t…

I disagree. 1) the author is a programmer. programming pays better than most jobs. 2) the vast majority of jobs will vet for the same "stability indicators" and may even be more of sticklers than the culturally lassez-faire tech industry, which introduced casual fridays to the world. 3) did I mention the superior remuneration for programming jobs versus stacking boxes at Amazon.com warehouses or UPS? I doubt that the…

Regarding those stability indicators...

> Me: “First thing, is I am looking for a remote position just long enough to allow me to save for a vehicle.”

Onboarding for many positions requires at least a month of time. If you're looking for just long enough to save up for a used car, that means that as soon as the on boarding is done, that person is going to leave.

I'm certain that there are places that are just after long enough to save for a car, but that tends to be at the very low end of the skill set and competing with college students after beer money.

Re: My Story as a Homeless Developer

#294

Post by shagie » Sat, Sep 08, 2018, 5:16 PM UTC

gaius wrote: post #271

justaaron wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. 1) the author is a programmer. programming pays better than most jobs. 2) the vast majority of jobs will vet for the same "stability indicators" and may even be more of sticklers than the culturally lassez-faire tech industry, which introduced casual fridays to the world. 3) did I mention the superior remuneration for programming jobs versus stacking boxes at Amazon.com warehouses or UPS? I doubt that the…

the culturally lassez-faire tech industry, which introduced casual fridays to the world. Casual fridays were invented by stuffy British stockbrokers who wanted to escape quickly to their country pursuits for the weekend without having to change first. It long predates the tech industry.

While I can certainly see that as an origin story, Wikipedia puts it as an offshoot of Aloha Friday - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casual_Friday / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_shirt#Aloha_Friday - in the 60s.

My favorite origin story is one that mixes some truth with fantasy and a religious pantheon of the Casual Gods - https://everything2.com/user/m_turner/writeups/Casual+Gods

Re: My Story as a Homeless Developer

#295

Post by DoreenMichele » Sat, Sep 08, 2018, 5:45 PM UTC

eric_b wrote: post #291

DoreenMichele wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I would love to hear more nuts and bolts information on how this gets done. And that's not what I'm hearing.

I think you're overthinking it. It's mostly just asking around. Go to a blue collar bar and chat with some of the guys sitting there. In small towns the VFWs or Legions are good choices. Talk to the ones drinking by themselves and that look dirty or sweaty. Hang out at gas stations or a McDonalds. All the people that work these kinds of jobs need to use restrooms and eat. These are two very popular places for them to…

Thank you.

Re: My Story as a Homeless Developer

#296

Post by sigi45 » Sat, Sep 08, 2018, 5:57 PM UTC

Why not work any job first and get your life straight? McDonalds, cleaning, Kirchenhelp whatever.

Than with a small flat, internet and a computer you have enough to try again a career in it.

Re: My Story as a Homeless Developer

#297

Post by matthewsharpe3 » Sat, Sep 08, 2018, 6:03 PM UTC

austenallred wrote: post #148

kraftman wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about changing your model to take a cut of the jobs people end up with? Then you'd end up being self sustainable. Recruiters take about a 20%, so with your one guy getting 100k you could help 10 more.

That's generally Lambda School's model - we train people to be software engineers for no upfront tuition in exchange for a share of future income for two years. We also have experiments running with housing and living stipends in exchange for a share of future income for three years. However, I consider recommending that to someone who is homeless and/or destitute exploitative. I can't put my finger on why, but knowi…

Have you explored a social impact bond funding model for such people?

Re: My Story as a Homeless Developer

#298

Post by sigi45 » Sat, Sep 08, 2018, 6:07 PM UTC

justaaron wrote: post #257

chrissnell wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. I'm sitting here at a cafe in my small Kansas town. There's a landscape company across the street with a sign offering $12/hr. They are desperate for people. I know this because I've hired their competitor to mow my grass and they can't get it mowed often enough because they are understaffed. This is a small town, probably about the same size as OP's. You can walk or ride a bike anywhere, so transportation is…

try being homeless and getting that landscaping job. Getting out of homelessness is extremely difficult. You smell, you can't keep your stuff safe, you can't keep your devices powered on, you can't get constant internet, you may not be able to find a place to sit and work in peace, etc. It's a catch 22: without a job, no apartment. without an apartment, no job. you need a phone, an apartment/living space, internet, a…

He sounds smart enough. He can articulate well and can use a PC.

If he is any reliable and ask for help locally, he will get it.

There is more to it than his text.

There are homeless people out there with alcohol addiction or other hard drugs. Schizophrenia untreated etc.

How homeless and helpless is your situation when you still can write a blog post?

Don't get me wrong, people should get/need help but people are not "just" homeless and something is missing in his story.

Re: My Story as a Homeless Developer

#299

Post by austenallred » Sat, Sep 08, 2018, 6:32 PM UTC

matthewsharpe3 wrote: post #297

austenallred wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's generally Lambda School's model - we train people to be software engineers for no upfront tuition in exchange for a share of future income for two years. We also have experiments running with housing and living stipends in exchange for a share of future income for three years. However, I consider recommending that to someone who is homeless and/or destitute exploitative. I can't put my finger on why, but knowi…

Have you explored a social impact bond funding model for such people?

No, I’m sure there are 100 clever ways to fund this I haven’t considered, but I haven’t had the time to explore it.

Re: My Story as a Homeless Developer

#300

Post by DoreenMichele » Sat, Sep 08, 2018, 6:57 PM UTC

gaius wrote: post #283

DoreenMichele wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It fits some definitions of homelessness. You are, for example, considered to be homeless if you are couch surfing and have no permanent address or if you are doubled up illegally with family. This is often termed "hidden homeless." Rough sleeping is not the only situation that qualifies as homeless. A home is about more than a literal roof over your head.

Michele I always upvote your posts, you are a solid contributor here, ignore the haters upthread.

Most of the interactions here in this discussion have actually been positive. I try to be selective in replying to negative remarks. I don't always get it right. But outright ignoring all of them doesn't seem like the best policy to me.

For one thing, sometimes they bring up good points that legitimately need to be addressed, even if they aren't brought up in a very nice manner. I do my best to focus on replying constructively, though, granted, it can be hard to figure out where to draw that line and sometimes the framing of a remark makes it hard to reply without sounding defensive or something.

For another, if I take a hard policy of "ignoring the haters," then someone not being "nice enough" has committed an unspeakable crime, so to speak. My experience suggests this creates more problems than it solves. It is a form of shunning and I don't really want to do that. It works better to be willing to talk to people who are engaging me about the issues, even if it isn't always sweetness and light.

I continue to try to figure out how to do that in a way that furthers constructive discussion of the issues and without making it overly much about me, but sometimes that isn't obvious to other people. Sometimes people think I am upset and taking it personally when I'm not. I'm just trying to make a larger point and using this detail as an example to further that goal.

I don't know a solution for that. Maybe, someday, I will have everything figured out. But today is not that day. For now, I will continue to muddle forward as best I can, however imperfectly.

Have a great day.