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European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

europa.eu

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Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#291

Post by ocdtrekkie »

throwawayjava wrote: post #202
hrktb wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry if it was unclear. The first issue is Google pushing the search engine on mobile devices. For context they also push Google search to iOS devices (Apple gets huge amount of money for that), the same way as they pay firefox to have Google as their default search engine. The issue though, is that for android phones, it's not a "let's make a deal, we will pay you to have Google Search" attitude. You can't make an…

Which is a kind of silly decision on Google's part, because they have far and away the superior product and also the superior brand. Even if the option was given at setup, nearly everyone choosing to buy an Andriod phone would select google as the default search engine... (I guess you could say that didn't see this coming, but the parallels with MSFT and IE are pretty hard to not see...) The fine is going to hurt a l…

Much of their entire dominance as a company hinges on pushing defaults, and their ability to force manufacturers to ship Google apps, on any phone sold in the EU, is a massive blow. The penalty is chump change for Google, but the remedy is what is going to hurt long term, because competitors can finally get in the game.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#292

Post by simongray »

antr wrote: post #210
rjvbk wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple does not have a monopoly dominant position. In my country I think they are like 10% of the market. You can't abuse your dominant position if you don't have one.

This fine isn't about monopoly. But Google: - has required manufacturers to pre-install the Google Search app and browser app (Chrome), as a condition for licensing Google's app store (the Play Store); - made payments to certain large manufacturers and mobile network operators on condition that they exclusively pre-installed the Google Search app on their devices; and - has prevented manufacturers wishing to pre-inst…

Yes, it is. Straight from the press release:

> Market dominance is, as such, not illegal under EU antitrust rules. However, dominant companies have a special responsibility not to abuse their powerful market position by restricting competition, either in the market where they are dominant or in separate markets.

> Google has engaged in three separate types of practices, which all had the aim of cementing Google's dominant position in general internet search.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#293

Post by vk23 »

cncrnd wrote: post #120
ckastner wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It looks like the EU has created a piggy bank with these regulations on hostage tech corporation Or is it the tech corporations holding consumers hostage, and are regulators trying to fight that.

How is Google holding consumers hostage and not Apple? Honestly, for the value that Android gives phone manufacturers I am surprised that Google's requirements were so low. Android gave the phone manufacturers a platform and asked for little in return.

>How is Google holding consumers hostage and not Apple?

It does not matter what Apple is doing this is about Google. I would expect that there are ongoing investigations against Apples practices regarding similar issues too.

>Honestly, for the value that Android gives phone manufacturers I am surprised that Google's requirements were so low. Android gave the phone manufacturers a platform and asked for little in return.

Not being allowed to release competing OSes / forks and other software is more than a "little" in return. Google does not give android away "for free" because they want to help others they do it because they want to help themself get into everybodies smartphone.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#294

Post by Dayshine »

endorphone wrote: post #286

This is a dangerous ruling that pushes the world further into the potential for trade wars by proxy. Contrary to numerous posts- -no, the law isn't "clear". This is an incredibly nuanced situation, and the notion that Google was just overtly flouting (ed: thx sjcsjc) the law is outright nonsense. Google has a huge litany of bad practices (I personally recently switched my daily driver to an iPhone for that reason), b…

Let's read the law: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...

>Article 102

>Any abuse by one or more undertakings of a dominant position within the internal market or in a substantial part of it shall be prohibited as incompatible with the internal market in so far as it may affect trade between Member States.

>Such abuse may, in particular, consist in:

>b) limiting production, markets or technical development to the prejudice of consumers

>d)making the conclusion of contracts subject to acceptance by the other parties of supplementary obligations which, by their nature or according to commercial usage, have no connection with the subject of such contracts

Ok, so, Google said "You can't use Google Play unless you force users to have Google Search installed".

How is that not clearly breaching d?

Then they said "You can't use Google Play if you try to help develop any android forks."

How is that not clearly breaching b?

>but simply saying "Surprise....enormous fine" is ridiculous

They've had at least two years notice, so could have reduced their fine by complying when they were first warned. http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-16-1492_en.htm The article literally warns about the exact things they're still doing.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#295

Post by swebs »

>In particular, Google has prevented manufacturers wishing to pre-install Google apps from selling even a single smart mobile device running on alternative versions of Android that were not approved by Google (so-called "Android forks").

Sounds a lot how Microsoft abused licensing agreements with OEMs to discourage them from selling PCs not bundled with Windows.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundling_of_Microsoft_Windows

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#296

Post by SparklingCotton »

close04 wrote: post #225
lotsofpulp wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would have to record every single conversation to pin intent on specific individuals. This is one big advantage of being concentrated in cities, you can meet face to face with people and discuss things without fear of legal repercussions.

That wasn't my point. I'm not talking about assigning blame on individuals in a company but to at least use the same principles when punishing companies as we do with individuals. A private individual is expected to return all illegal gains, pay additional fines, and possibly do prison. But a company might be expected to pay fines that are actually a fraction of the profits made abusing the law. This means paying the…

Since the EU wants Google to stop within 90 days, I assume they can give them a fresh €4.5bn fine if they refuse. At least that's something.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#297

Post by devdas »

tomaha wrote: post #69
icebraining wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no implied assumption about profits.

I agree that assumption is the wrong word. But do you have examples of monopolies that didn't take the profits and control the pricing of the markets they control?

Google is controlling profits from advertising and playstore sales by using Android to route traffic to those endpoints.

The profit isn't from the direct sale of an Android device, it's from the system the device is a gateway to.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#298

Post by Devasta »

menegattig wrote: post #244

IMHO, antitrust fines/penalties should change from amount of money to some other type of penalty, like temporary market exclusion/block or something, otherwise companies like Google and others can simply use its cash (that's was also made due to the unfair advantage), pay the fine and move on to the next market dominance. They will always have cash to pay, even if the fines are higher and higher. They kind of expect…

But how would you do something like that with companies like Google? So many organisations probably rely on GCP, GMail etc that you couldn't stop them from operating without stutting huge numbers of businesses too.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#300

Post by petecox »

repolfx wrote: post #151
blub wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, that is a big problem. If company A has launched an official Android device, and company B goes to A and asks them to build a totally unrelated Android-based (but not Android proper) device for them, A is not allowed to do that by Google.

But why would company B go to company A and ask them to make a phone "for them"? It's not hard to become a phone maker these days, judging by the sheer number of Android OEMs that are out there (hundreds, I believe). If there was huge untapped demand for Android sans Google then a new company would appear, they'd download the Android code, they'd go to Shenzen and do a deal with a white label manufacturer, and they'd…

Jolla have a collaboration with Sony to get Sailfish OS running on their Xperia phones.

However, Sailfish is available only as a post market firmware.

Being a derivative work of AOSP courtesy of libhybris, it would seem Sony are prevented from factory installing Sailfish on any future Xperia device.

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