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Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

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Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#291

Post by QML »

phinnaeus wrote: post #3

Realistically, I just can't really see Apple fixing this by introducing a new keyboard design that's any thicker. As much as I would love to hear "We've heard your feedback on the keyboards and we've made some drastic changes to address them in our new Macbook Pro", it just doesn't seem like their style. What do others think they're going to do for their next release of laptops?

The thickness of the keyboard isn't the issue -- the issue is its fixability. I've heard various accounts of when a key gets stuck, Apple has to replace the whole bottom half of the laptop.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#292

Post by ruytlm »

deathanatos wrote: post #170

> [Apple quietly announced][1] that they were extending the warranty on their flagship laptop’s keyboard by four years. No, they didn't. If you read the very source the article cites for this, you find, > The program covers eligible MacBook and MacBook Pro models for 4 years after the first retail sale of the unit. The original warranty was 1 year[2]; this is a three year extension. "Extending by 4 years" is just too…

Worth noting that in some jurisdictions (e.g. Australia), consumer protection law extends beyond manufacturer warranties by establishing consumer guarantees, e.g. a guarantee that products will be of acceptable quality, and that they will be reasonably fit for any disclosed or represented purpose.[0]

This often extends beyond the period of the express manufacturer warranty.

On a semi-related note, Apple has recently been fined AU$9m for "making false or misleading representations to customers with faulty iPhones and iPads about their rights under the Australian Consumer Law", by representing to customers "that they were no longer eligible for a remedy if their device had been repaired by a third party".[1]

[0]: https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees...

[1]: https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/iphone-and-ipad-misrep...

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#293

Post by sgrove »

stcredzero wrote: post #222
djsumdog wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I knew CS graduates who loved parsing theory and could implement some basic C compilers, and I knew some who didn't know what a SCSI controller was. You get out of your education what you put into it. I had someone in an interview in Berlin ask me to write a garbage collector. In CSC 202, our professor talked about using reference counts. Reference counts can get leaks if you have two objects referencing each other w…

I had someone in an interview in Berlin ask me to write a garbage collector. In CSC 202, our professor talked about using reference counts. Jeez. I think my profs covered ref counting as an introduction, then also went on to cover mark/sweep and generational collectors. We also covered compaction, copying and bump allocation. I don't think it took that long. If I were running a shop that focused on, say Java, I would…

I had someone ask me the cycle detection question once, and I didn't care for how they phrased it. Specifically, should I find it immediately upon entering the first cycle (at a higher memory/time cost) or should I just eventually detect it (e.g. turtle/rabbit)? It was on me to clarify, but as a newb to the industry, I felt like I should just know which was expected.

And either way, if I were to ask this question, I would spend a lot of time helping the person along the way to make sure they were able to make the logical leaps that made sense to them, not to me.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#294

Post by gnicholas »

tedmiston wrote: post #213
deathanatos wrote: post #170

> [Apple quietly announced][1] that they were extending the warranty on their flagship laptop’s keyboard by four years. No, they didn't. If you read the very source the article cites for this, you find, > The program covers eligible MacBook and MacBook Pro models for 4 years after the first retail sale of the unit. The original warranty was 1 year[2]; this is a three year extension. "Extending by 4 years" is just too…

FWIW AppleCare for this price of machine has been the same duration and roughly the same price since forever, even before MBPs. What they have quietly changed is now you can only buy it in the first 60 days instead of the first year which was a big surprise to me buying a new MBP. It had been the first year for a very, very long time — since inception IIRC. Of course I learned of this change after I'd already had my…

The link from SyneRyder’s comment indicates that you can still buy AppleCare anytime in the first year. The only thing subject to the 60-day limit is AppleCare+ (which includes accidental damage).

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#295

Post by overkalix »

yonkshi wrote: post #264
dleslie wrote: post #252

I like machines that are built to take a beating. My penultimate laptop was an HP Mini 101; I only replaced it on a whim, and still use it from time to time. The keys have been worn to be smooth, concave and most are missing the printed text. When I last opened it up to add an SSD a suprising amount of sand came pouring out; having been taken to many beaches, tossed in bags, and generally used outdoors it had accumul…

How’s the Linux battery management for laptops? This and driver compatibility are usually my biggest concern. I remember 2/3 windows laptops I used were having trouble sleeping/waking up when lids were shut

In my experience running Linux in two laptops is that it tends to underestimate the battery duration but the battery lasts longer than with the original OS.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#296

Post by bbrian »

ethagknight wrote: post #70
el_benhameen wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long did the repair take? I talked to a guy at the Apple store who said they’d likely do it even if the issue is intermittent, but I don’t love the idea of not having my machine for several weeks.

It took 4 business days from drop off to pick up, but fortunately I got in just before the extended warranty was announced. I imagine now it will take longer, but that’s speculation.

Reasonable speculation, based on increased lead times when they offered cheaper battery replacements on iPhones. Although, few people would wait long to get a broken key fixed!

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/02/27/battery-replacement-wai...

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#297

Post by Cyphase »

namibj wrote: post #271
resonious wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a new Oryx Pro. I'm not an expert on laptop build quality but to me the Oryx Pro looks and feels great. It is in fact a Clevo P955ER, which I know I could get for cheaper, but personally I want to support System 76's selling and supporting Linux laptops. I'd actually be interested to see if a straight-up Clevo P955ER with Pop!_OS installed is any more or less stable than an Oryx Pro. Anyways here are my though…

No _need_ to reboot. Restarting the Xorg/Wayland server, maybe. You might be able to fool it into thinking you just hot-plugged the GPU, at least as far as the screen layout is concerned. Remember: the only reason you need to reboot linux is to get a new kernel, or because the kernel FUBAR'd and corrupted data.

I hear you, and I've restarted the display server plenty of times on my computers instead of restarting them, especially on my main desktop where I have lots more stuff running independent of the display (daemons, etc). But, I feel like particularly on a laptop, if you're restarting the display server, it's not much different than just restarting the whole machine. Certainly that's the case for the large majority of users. Anyway, I think the point is that it's a hassle, which it is, not that you literally "need to reboot".

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#298

Post by travbrack »

stcredzero wrote: post #120
yawn_010101 wrote: post #47

Having interfaced with Apple in a different way (apart from owning a new MBP and an iPhone X) I'd say the issue is, and continues to be, growing pains. They're certainly losing the lead in software engineer talent (giving it away to whom, I'm not sure). But the single most horrible experience I've had with Apple in the last year was trying to get software published on the App Store. That's a department that's so larg…

I'd say the issue is, and continues to be, growing pains. They're certainly losing the lead in software engineer talent (giving it away to whom, I'm not sure). I keep on interviewing recent Comp Sci graduates who have a 3.75 or a 4.0 and who can't tell me how to implement cycle detection -- to the extent that they could write a pseudocode function signature or some kind of concretely implementable design. Many of the…

I have to disconnect and reconnect my thunderbolt display exactly 2x to get the webcam on it to work.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#299

Post by red75prime »

rmrfrmrf wrote: post #145
dingo_bat wrote: post #121

> In the meantime, let’s give some other companies a shot. Dell and HP have gorgeous, reliable, repairable flagship laptops that are getting rave reviews. Right now, I think they’ve done more to earn your business than Apple has. The laptop mentioned in the "rave review" link is an elitebook 840 g5. I have been using the 840 g1 as my primary laptop for the last 4 years and it really is a sturdy device. The hardware i…

Windows is so terrible, though. I could never go back.

Windows is so fine. I will never switch away.
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