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Judge Rules Trump Can’t Block People on Twitter

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Re: Judge Rules Trump Can’t Block People on Twitter

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, your understanding of it is wrong. Trump is limited from blocking people because he's the President. If he were to resign tomorrow and go back to being a private citizen, he could block away to his heart-s content. Twitter, the company, can do what it likes because it is not an organ of the government, notwithstanding the choice of some government officials to make use of it.

But you are missing the part where Trump is allowed to pick the private company, and is thus able to pick one which enforces a ToS that the government would not be able to enforce themselves. This creates a loophole where by the government only has to pick private companies that ban anyone who is against the current government to get a defacto censor on the public square that wouldn't otherwise be allowed.

I m not missing that part, because it hasn't happened yet. Imaginary injuries don't have evidentiary value, regardless of their potential possibility; thus it would be improper for a court to pronounce upon them - that's what legislators are for.

You're overlooking the fact that requiring Twitter to retroactively alter its own terms of service once it provided services to the government would be a violation of the takings clause. In your hypothetical example, it's more likely that a court would enjoin the government official from use of the company with the overly restrictive ToS for official business, rather than forcing the firm to alter its policy.

Re: Judge Rules Trump Can’t Block People on Twitter

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LBJ was a well known asshole. Did you actually think about your statement before you wrote it, or just assume that it would be true?

Yay personal attacks! There is a difference between being an asshole and being an asshole on tv/radio/twitter. The only way LBJ was same as Trump would be, if LBJ went on TV everyday and yelled profanity and called people names. Because that is what Trump does when he rage-tweets every morning.

LBJ was a well known asshole on every medium that was available to him.

Does Trump use a lot of profanity? I've never really noticed. What I notice is that he makes fun of his opponents a lot, but I don't really see how that is considered rude, when his opponents are doing the same thing back to him.

Re: Judge Rules Trump Can’t Block People on Twitter

#293

Wait, any public official? So the elected school board members in my town can't block me on Twitter if I go on crazy racist tirades, as long as they're political in nature? How about the dogcatcher? He can't block PETA animal rights screed accounts? And doesn't being forced to let cranks interact with prominent accounts increase those cranks' visibility? Is that forcing the prominent person to promote speech with whi…

We have a very broad "right to petition" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_petition ) our representatives and executives. Yes, the school board must listen to your crazy rants, because it's literally their job to represent you, or at least to be aware that your views exist.

Your school board doesn't have to listen. They can put headphones on and hum loudly through your speech if they like. They just can't prevent you from talking to them.

Equivalently, the judge seems to have concluded that the President muting someone on Twitter is fine, but blocking them is not.

Re: Judge Rules Trump Can’t Block People on Twitter

#294
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Twitter is not a government owned entity, the government should have no right to force the use or means of use of a private tool. Now if the tool was a government utility, it would be a different story.

Then maybe the government should not use twitter for any official statements? Why should they be allowed to get around the rules by using twitter?

What's an "official statement"? Sounds like it's probably any public statement.

Re: Judge Rules Trump Can’t Block People on Twitter

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh common. Spam and a harassment is a problem. Let the people he blocks make a new account to follow him or open an incognito window.

We have the right to petition our government to redress grievances. As a public official, the bar for harassment is higher - for the President, I don't believe anything sent over twitter could be harassment.

Death threats?

Re: Judge Rules Trump Can’t Block People on Twitter

#296
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if that was the crux of the issue, the ruling would be "stop making policy statements on twitter." i don't think that sort of thing is within the purview of the court. > The vast majority of US citizens don't use twitter and a sizable portion don't even have access to a twitter-capable device. afaik there isn't a way to make statements in a manner that will reach all citizens.

> afaik there isn't a way to make statements in a manner that will reach all citizens. I don't think Clinton and all the presidents before him had trouble making statements without the use of Twitter.

sure, and they didn't reach everyone either.

Re: Judge Rules Trump Can’t Block People on Twitter

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twitter is not the only means of response. And the ruling only applies to the President's (currently Trump) use of Twitter and says nothing about your interaction with that service. As a private entity, they're free to make a ToS and you're free to agree or reject it, which governs your usage.

But if I want to use the public forum that has been created, I'm forced to agree to those ToS. Imagine for a second if those ToS included something like banning all people from the state of New York or it banned all socialist. The government, by picking a service with a ToS to host a public forum, is there by enforcing the ToS as a requirement to participate in the public forum. So why can the government enforce a To…

If the President (doesn't matter who) showed up at your house, in your living room, would you still claim the right to deny entry to anyone you chose?

The judgement governs the President's use of Twitter, not the interaction between Twitter and other people. Twitter does not magically become a Public Forum, just because the President uses it.

Now, I'm not sure that is Right and Just, but I'm also not going to worry about it too much. I don't use it enough to get completely wound up about it.

Re: Judge Rules Trump Can’t Block People on Twitter

#298
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The parent wasn't saying that it does. Yes they were. The first amendment does not apply to Twitter. It applies to Trump . Absolutely nothing Twitter does is even capable of being a 1st Amendment issue. Not true of Trump.

>> The parent wasn't saying that it does. >Yes they were. Where? >Absolutely nothing Twitter does is even capable of being a 1st Amendment issue. I agreed with that: >>if you consider Twitter[1] a public square (as the court does), and thus you can't stop people from "petitioning the government" through it, then it's a double-edged sword: they must also protect the same speech that would be protected in a public squa…

> Where?

Here: "that must mean that Twitter banning people is also a violation of the first amendment"

That's... pretty darn clear.

> Can you help me to find the part of my original comment that made the above unclear?

The first two lines of your comment frame your response as counter to the position of the person you are replying to. That would be counter to you new claim that you agree it's not a 1st Amendment issue.

Disagreement with a claim followed by an argument is generally taken by readers as an argument as to why the claim is wrong, not right. Just so you know for future writing.

Re: Judge Rules Trump Can’t Block People on Twitter

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being banned still prevents you from interacting in more ways. Trump retweets and tags people/organizations all the time.

The key here is that the Twitter is under no responsibility to facilitate your first amendment rights. The government, solely and exclusively, cannot limit your free speech; Twitter can do whatever they want, and are under no legal obligation to provide any service whatsoever to you.

I see. The user anigbrowl clarifies further below:

> Allowing the government to use your service [as its preferred way of communicating] does not thereby make it part of the government.

Re: Judge Rules Trump Can’t Block People on Twitter

#300
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's the case, it is likely he can just continue to block people, I don't think he's going to unblock people suddenly because of this. If he is basically immune to most lawsuits (in general - I'm sure at some point something will break that line) then why would one judge's ruling have him change his behavior. He's pretty critical of judges already. On the other hand, if the judge wanted to see this change, requi…

> If he is basically immune to most lawsuits He's not (barring reversal on appeal) immune, or this case would never have reached a judgement. > On the other hand, if the judge wanted to see this change, requiring Twitter to both remove (his) block button and unblock all existing users (from his account only) would more likely happen. Judges don't have unlimited freedom to arbitrarily issue orders directing labor of n…

> There are, in any case, processes for addressing failure of a party to respect a judgement, which Trump is no more immune to regarding this judgement than he is to the case resulting in the judgement.

And what are those? For regular people, the judge can have a person jailed for contempt of court. I doubt that the POTUS is worried about that.

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