Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 434 posts

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#291

Post by raverbashing »

dv_dt wrote: post #109
cheeseomlit wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Italians, Irish, and most of the other immigrants from that time were Europeans who had a lot in common with Americans culturally.

I don't think you're thinking of the historical details to say that in such a blase manner. The path to integration went through periods much more violent and contentious than anything we see today.

Which historical details? The fact that the US was extremely racist but the immigrants managed to integrate by focusing on work and adapting instead of spiting and complaining about the host country?

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#292

Post by souprock »

jurassic wrote: post #18

As half of a thirty somethings couple that wants children but can’t afford the financial implications in the Bay Area, it seems pretty clear to me why fertility is down.

Each day on my walk to work, I pass by a couple houses for sale. They are on .25 acre lots, less than a mile from the beach, and likely to sell for about $250,000 each.

That is, uh, about 10% of the San Francisco cost or 20% of the general Bay Area cost. Salaries are more like 50%, and of course that also means a lower income tax bracket. Other stuff is cheaper too, like food and gasoline. Last I checked, the price of gasoline was about 50% of what you have to pay.

The finances work out fine. I have 11 kids.

At age 35, probably 2/3 of the childbearing years are gone. (could be all gone, could have another dozen years) You'd better hurry.

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#293

Post by raverbashing »

dragontamer wrote: post #250
magduf wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese immigrants were not (and still are not) particularly religious, and certainly didn't have a religion that promoted extremism and placed them at odds with the existing inhabitants. Other Asian immigrants in the US were also either not religious, or (like with Koreans and Filipinos) adopted the same religion as the dominant culture. The fundamental problem, as I see it, is religion.

> and certainly didn't have a religion that promoted extremism Lets cut through the code words then and have a direct counterexample to what you're trying to say. Nigerians are primarily Muslims. They are also highly educated and among the most entrepreneurial immigrants to the USA. And while there's a "Nigerian prince" joke every now and then, they really are doing relatively well in the USA. Like, "better than Asia…

> Nigerians are primarily Muslims.

More like 50%/50%

> What about Indians? Who are usually either Hindu or Muslim?

Most are Hindu or Sikh

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#294

Post by pasbesoin »

tzahola wrote: post #144
pasbesoin wrote: post #108

My personal, anecdotal observation. This is the continuing legacy of the baby boomers. A counter-point, opposite of their parents, the so-named greatest generation. Come to the height of their careers in the 70's through the 90's. The decades of self. With Michael Douglas's character's "Greed is good!" as a centerpoint. They're where the wealth has gone. Leaving following generations without the security to settle do…

So, what’s the plan when the boomer menace is over in 15-20 years? Where will their wealth go when they die?

A lot of it appears to be going to chronic, late, and end-stage medical care.

And it's not the aides providing 24/7 coverage, who are getting rich. (Having been dealing increasingly with this, recently with some friends. Most of the aides are immigrants who are making relatively low hourly wages. The bills, however, can (well) exceed the full household expenses for a staunchly middle-class family of four. And many eventual estates have to pay those until they're more or less broke, when the government picks up.)

I need to reduce my commenting. This here is anecdote. And I'm pretty steamed about what I've been watching happen in the U.S., for the past 3+ decades.

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#295

Post by skissane »

loggedinmyphone wrote: post #269
kaitai wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As recently as 1998 I had a preacher tell my Irish Catholic friend that she still had a chance to accept Jesus and be saved. There is still a feeling that Catholics are not really Christian in some circles, and that was an important factor in justifying the discrimination you mention!

In fairness many Catholics don't accept Protestants as Christians either.

> In fairness many Catholics don't accept Protestants as Christians either.

If any Catholic actually thinks this, they must be deeply ignorant of Catholic theology. According to the Catholic Church, anyone baptised using water and with a Trinitarian formula is Christian. Most Protestant denominations baptise people in this way, so most baptised Protestants are Christians according to traditional Catholic theology.

(And this is not something new introduced with Vatican II either, it historically dates back to the Donatist schism in 4th century North Africa.)

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#296

Post by raverbashing »

cjbprime wrote: post #270
jandrese wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And also Irish. Despite being white and christian the Irish faced considerable discrimination around the turn of the century.

"Being white"'s an interesting phrase to use, because I don't think Irish (or Italians at a different point) were considered white at the time they were being discriminated against here. It shows how much whiteness is socially constructed.

They were considered white. (Italians and Greeks weren't though)

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#297

Post by dragontamer »

raverbashing wrote: post #293
dragontamer wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and certainly didn't have a religion that promoted extremism Lets cut through the code words then and have a direct counterexample to what you're trying to say. Nigerians are primarily Muslims. They are also highly educated and among the most entrepreneurial immigrants to the USA. And while there's a "Nigerian prince" joke every now and then, they really are doing relatively well in the USA. Like, "better than Asia…

> Nigerians are primarily Muslims. More like 50%/50% > What about Indians? Who are usually either Hindu or Muslim? Most are Hindu or Sikh

> Most are Hindu or Sikh

Oh right, Pakistan is where the Muslims come from. Apologies, its sometimes hard to remember everything about the world.

But yeah, neither of those are Christian. Both are IIRC Polythistic religions, about as different from Christianity as possible. Muslims for example believe in Abraham and the existence of Jesus. Their story is... very different but Allah is clearly the God of Abraham / Yahweh.

So if anything, Muslims are "closer" to the mainstream religion of the USA than Hindu's or Sikhs

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#298

Post by lobster_johnson »

avar wrote: post #226
mhneu wrote: post #8

For decades, the US birth rate has been held up by immigration. American values have been to regard the country as a nation of immigrants, who not only act as a source of youthful workers, but also have more kids than Americans who have been here longer. So the US has avoided workforce aging, as has happened in parts of Europe and especially Japan, through immigration. With the recent reduction in immigration, accele…

> With the recent reduction in immigration[...] What's your source for that? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I wasn't able to find any year-by-year statistics for US immigration.

Some good, fairly recent data from Pew [1] and in this [2] NY Times article. From what I gather from this, border crossings are going down, but illegal visa overstays are going up.

[1] http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/04/27/5-facts-abou...

[2] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/03/06/us/politics/u...

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#299

Post by thex10 »

tropo wrote: post #267
coliveira wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason is that the US doesn't provide support for families. Childcare, maternity leave, health care support, these are things that could make it possible for working parents to have more kids. The US is doing just the opposite.

The US didn't have that stuff a century ago either, and the birth rate was higher. You may wish for those things, but they aren't required. Some EU countries have those things, and their birth rates are even lower than the US birth rate. Those things actually contribute to the problem. They drive up taxes, causing more families to feel that they need two incomes and overtime and a bit more waiting.

> The US didn't have that stuff a century ago either, and the birth rate was higher.

Ah yes, back when one (1) unexceptional salary could actually support a few humans, shelter, etc.

> They drive up taxes, causing more families to feel they need two incomes...

I’m pretty sure the stagnation of wages while costs of living kept increasing played a way bigger part of this than a few percentage points of tax changes.

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#300

Post by BigChiefSmokem »

nostromo wrote: post #35
mhneu wrote: post #8

For decades, the US birth rate has been held up by immigration. American values have been to regard the country as a nation of immigrants, who not only act as a source of youthful workers, but also have more kids than Americans who have been here longer. So the US has avoided workforce aging, as has happened in parts of Europe and especially Japan, through immigration. With the recent reduction in immigration, accele…

I don't see the value in large numbers of unskilled workers entering the US every year. With a potentially large wave of automation coming, the US shouldn't straddled itself with lots of unemployable drivers, farm workers, etc. I hope we can move to a much more sensible immigration system, similar to Canada's, for example.

You are not in agriculture and manufacturing then. We want to bring back coal mine jobs but why don't those coal miners start picking strawberries then? Neither requires a higher education or barely any education at all.
Post reply on HN