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US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

zdnet.com

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Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#291

Post by newnewpdro »

gruez wrote: post #139
tgb wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> did a quick check How? Thanks.

searched up the package name, and according to https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/software-hacking/ar... , it's installed at /system/priv-app/xtra_t_app, which was not on my phone. Also noticed that most posts had mentions of IZat in their location settings, which my phone did not have (in lineageos or stock)

You don't seem to appreciate the fact that the OS you interact with on a modern smartphone is essentially a guest.

There's a world of proprietary complexity you have zero visibility into, and much of it is running with direct access to hardware the application OS you interact with can only partially make use of.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#293

Post by fixermark »

drb91 wrote: post #271
fixermark wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should they? The vast quantity of users find it incredibly useful and have no reason to be concerned about governments or third parties being able to determine their geographic location, because governments or third parties don't generally care.

Any source for this claim?

The general public and repeatedly-reported-upon understanding of how data collection can be leveraged to find unexpected insights not obvious from the data, coupled with the Snowden leaks, coupled with the ever-increasing user count for cellphones, Facebook, Twitter, and the Internet in general.

If people were deeply individually concerned about the risks vs. rewards of these technologies, they'd stop using them. That's the rubber-meets-the-road calculus I see.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#294

Post by fixermark »

908087 wrote: post #277
fixermark wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should they? The vast quantity of users find it incredibly useful and have no reason to be concerned about governments or third parties being able to determine their geographic location, because governments or third parties don't generally care.

If they "don't generally care", they wouldn't be collecting that data to begin with.

They collect the data because they can find themselves needing to care in the future, at which point nobody wants to be kicking themselves for failing to collect the data.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#296

Post by trophycase »

vertexFarm wrote: post #192
random6547545 wrote: post #44

Throwaway account. I work in location / mapping / geo. Some of us have been waiting for this to blow (which it hasn't yet). The public has zero idea how much personal location data is available. It's not just your cell carrier. Your cell phone chip manufacturer, GPS chip manufacturer, phone manufacturer and then pretty much anyone on the installed OS (android crapware) is getting a copy of your location data. Usually…

Making a cell phone out of a pi with a sim card and gps daughter board is sounding less and less crazy each day. Really looking forward to when the librem phone starts shipping. I wonder if they've really been thorough enough vetting hardware for those bare-metal security issues. This is at once staggering and completely unsurprising that companies would violate user trust in such a way and sell data without proper v…

And the complicit employees letting them get away with it.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#297

Post by newnewpdro »

mindcrime wrote: post #273
rectang wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it does great harm for the state to have this data, and also great harm for the cell carriers to have this data... Why thwart one great harm yet happily tolerate the other?

Does it cause "great harm" for private businesses to have access to this? I'm not sure sure. After all, there is a qualitative difference between the State, which employs men with guns and arrogates to itself the right to use force to impose its will on people, the right to jail people, etc. If Starbucks knows my location, they can send me a coupon if I enter a Dunkin' Donuts store. If the State knows my location the…

It doesn't really matter, if a business has the data and the state wants it, the state gets access to the data via the business.

The division is so trivially violated it's pretty much irrelevant.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#298

Post by rectang »

mindcrime wrote: post #273
rectang wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it does great harm for the state to have this data, and also great harm for the cell carriers to have this data... Why thwart one great harm yet happily tolerate the other?

Does it cause "great harm" for private businesses to have access to this? I'm not sure sure. After all, there is a qualitative difference between the State, which employs men with guns and arrogates to itself the right to use force to impose its will on people, the right to jail people, etc. If Starbucks knows my location, they can send me a coupon if I enter a Dunkin' Donuts store. If the State knows my location the…

> Does it cause "great harm" for private businesses to have access to this?

Wide availability of tracking data facilitates domestic violence and stalking, for starters.

Say that someone gets killed by their ex who found them through tracking data leaked by some irresponsible and/or profiteering company. How do we hold that company accountable? How can we prove that it was them who leaked the data, when it's everywhere?

We can't hold the credit authorities like Equifax accountable today for the identity theft they facilitate. This is the same problem. The aggregation of our individual data by companies causes massive negative externalities, borne by individuals.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#299

Post by mastofaces »

ballenf wrote: post #260
wpietri wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those who want to try out LocationSmart, you can use it here: https://www.locationsmart.com/try/ They were about two blocks off, and located me by cell tower. Apparently they don't have (or at least don't admit to having) A-GPS level data for me.

Tested and same result. I have a strong suspicion that it intentionally places you some distance from where it knows you actually are. Unless there is some underlying reason why it would never be 100% accurate -- I've seen dozens of people post their results and every time it's 1-300 meters off. And it's not just "no one tests while under the cell tower" because the location it gave me was 150 meters in the opposite…

I just used the internet site it said up to 14 miles off in accuracy on the results page. It was actually 4 miles off with my wifi off and GPS off and ZLAT off. I'm also pretty sure the location it picked is very close to an existing cell tower.
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