Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

elaineou.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 307 posts

Re: Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

#291

Post by candiodari »

camel_Snake wrote: post #285
candiodari wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that standard Saudi Arabia has freedom of speech. There's just consequences - sometimes beheading. Getting fired is only marginally better. But glad you support repression when it supports you.

Except there's a huge difference between being punished by the government for your opinions and being judged by your peers and coworkers for your opinions. If I were a huge proponent of NAMBLA I'd recognize that being a public advocate of such would negatively effect my social status as well as potentially attract negative attention to any brand I associate myself with. That doesn't mean I'm being silenced or censore…

Let me ask it very directly then. If I report your comment to your employer, and convince them to fire you, would you consider that just ?

I think we both know the answer.

Re: Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

#292

Post by Helloworldboy »

Niksko wrote: post #61
Helloworldboy wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should actually read the multi-page article. And not the version hacked apart by tech "journalists" to remove the citations.

Citations are worthless when the reasoning that is citing them is shoddy. If you cite things, it makes the facts that you're referencing true. It doesn't make the logic of your argument true.

Obviously it's appropriate to remove the citations from someone's work then, right? No bias there :^)

Re: Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

#293

Post by [deleted] »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #174
mperham wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be clear here. We're not talking about where to eat lunch or controversial scientific theories, a la Galileo or Darwin. We're talking about "is race X smarter than race Y", "is gender X smarter than Y". Bigoted ideas. Some have been comfortable espousing bigoted views. Now they are forced to think about what they say and how they say it. As a white man, this has affected my own behavior (for the better IMO): I'…

> We're talking about "is race X smarter than race Y", "is gender X smarter than Y". Bigoted ideas. Let's hypothetically say that a sapient alien species, with the full range of emotions and thoughts a human being can have, was discovered that was also demonstrably not as smart as human beings after centuries of scientific study. Would saying "humans are smarter than these aliens" be bigoted? Flip it around. If diffe…

[deleted]

Re: Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

#294

Post by [deleted] »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #174
mperham wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be clear here. We're not talking about where to eat lunch or controversial scientific theories, a la Galileo or Darwin. We're talking about "is race X smarter than race Y", "is gender X smarter than Y". Bigoted ideas. Some have been comfortable espousing bigoted views. Now they are forced to think about what they say and how they say it. As a white man, this has affected my own behavior (for the better IMO): I'…

> We're talking about "is race X smarter than race Y", "is gender X smarter than Y". Bigoted ideas. Let's hypothetically say that a sapient alien species, with the full range of emotions and thoughts a human being can have, was discovered that was also demonstrably not as smart as human beings after centuries of scientific study. Would saying "humans are smarter than these aliens" be bigoted? Flip it around. If diffe…

[deleted]

Re: Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

#295

Post by asabjorn »

rectang wrote: post #289
koverstreet wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy crap, talk about false equivalencies. The parent was disagreeing with your tactics, and you equate that with defending the status quo. You crusaders and your "You're either with us or against us" mentality are the worst.

It seems that you have chosen to ignore upthread accusations of McCarthyism by the same author. That's not constructive criticism over tactical disagreements, it's concern trolling.

If you are pointing to my comment I was not trolling at all. McCarthyism had some of the same properties when it comes to suppressing free speech, but the current environment is also very different in that it is done outside the court system by a mob with no due process. That is more worrisome to me.

If you disagree I would like to hear an argument for how it is different. How do you think the way opinions are suppressed does not violate basic rights of free speech and due process? How do you think calling for someones firing for having an opinion with no due process is a rule of law?

Re: Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

#296

Post by rectang »

asabjorn wrote: post #295
rectang wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that you have chosen to ignore upthread accusations of McCarthyism by the same author. That's not constructive criticism over tactical disagreements, it's concern trolling.

If you are pointing to my comment I was not trolling at all. McCarthyism had some of the same properties when it comes to suppressing free speech, but the current environment is also very different in that it is done outside the court system by a mob with no due process. That is more worrisome to me. If you disagree I would like to hear an argument for how it is different. How do you think the way opinions are suppre…

You want me to explain how I'm not a McCarthyite?

Why not ask something more civil, like "When did you stop beating your wife?"

Re: Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

#297

Post by ghostcluster »

angry_octet wrote: post #273
ghostcluster wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're calling this Stanford piece 'amateurs with agendas'? > There was too much data pointing to the biological basis of sex-based cognitive differences to ignore, Halpern says. For one thing, the animal-research findings resonated with sex-based differences ascribed to people. These findings continue to accrue. In a study of 34 rhesus monkeys, for example, males strongly preferred toys with wheels over plush toys,…

No, I'm talking about Damore and his ilk. And you still seem to be implying that, because there are biological differences in preferences or some task skill at a statistical population level, any one individual can be categorised, based on their gender alone, as having different ability at a different technical and education dependent task. If that is the case, a cite from a Cochrane study that linked specific brain…

> And you still seem to be implying that, because there are biological differences in preferences or some task skill at a statistical population level, any one individual can be categorised, based on their gender alone, as having different ability at a different technical and education dependent task.

I am not and neither was Damore, who in fact went out of his way to talk about population level differences, including providing bell curve distribution graphics

Re: Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

#298

Post by joshuamorton »

sn9 wrote: post #175
joshuamorton wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would, unfortunately that doesn't work. If it did, no one would believe that the Earth is flat.

That's a completely insane counterargument. Care to bet what the historical trend has been for the percentage of the population that claim the earth is flat? If evidence didn't work it would be flat or random.

Over what timescale?

Re: Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

#299

Post by asabjorn »

rectang wrote: post #296
asabjorn wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are pointing to my comment I was not trolling at all. McCarthyism had some of the same properties when it comes to suppressing free speech, but the current environment is also very different in that it is done outside the court system by a mob with no due process. That is more worrisome to me. If you disagree I would like to hear an argument for how it is different. How do you think the way opinions are suppre…

You want me to explain how I'm not a McCarthyite? Why not ask something more civil, like "When did you stop beating your wife?"

I am asking you to answer the questions I posed instead of making counteraccusations. If you make a good argument I am happy to listen and change my position.

Denying everything, never admitting to what other observe even if it might have merit, and making counteraccusations instead of answering direct questions that are reasonable does not make a position any more correct. This kind of tactic to avoid shining light on an agenda and discussing it is very dangerous to a democracy, and to be honest it kind of proves my point.

Re: Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

#300

Post by cannonedhamster »

BrendanEich wrote: post #290
cannonedhamster wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I must not have made my point. His political views matter only because the company is based upon values such as openness and inclusiveness. As the one running the ship his political views would have been antithetical to the company mission based on his current actions, which is why the employees revolted.

Fake news. Employees didn’t revolt - it looks as if you may be referring to six Mozilla Foundation employees who tweeted. They worked for a different organization. They almost all left soon after I did anyway.

You're obviously closer to the issue than myself and I'm truly glad you moved on to create something new and different with Brave. I didn't follow the issue entirely closely, but it seems that there were quite a few more than six people in the company that were upset about your monetary contributions. Realistically, you have to know that saying it was just six people that were upset about your monetary contribution is hyperbole.

My comment doesn't just pertain to you nor did I really dig into the merits of your situation, but it does serve as a valid test case that even someone with your obvious and deep technical skills requires more than just those skills to be in alignment with what the company needs from a leader.

Post reply on HN