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Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

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Re: Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

#291

Post by smacktoward »

revelation wrote: post #287
callahad wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That tweet sounds like doublespeak, but Directory Tiles really did have some genuinely good ideas mixed in with the bad. I don't know how far we got with it, but one of the ideas was to serve a generic bundle of ads, and then select which ones to display locally, based on an entirely private, client-side analysis of the browser's history. Now, that probably shouldn't have been on the new tab page, and probably not in…

You think because your code is running native you can spy on me better for ad purposes, and that's a feature? That is just tone-deaf.

The whole point is that they weren't spying on you. The observations of your behavior were made entirely client-side, in your browser, and never passed back to Mozilla or anybody else.

Defining that as "spying" strikes me as a big reach. It's no more spying than (say) Windows observing what programs you use most and adding shortcuts to them in your Start menu. Software adapting itself to fit the user better is a good thing, as long as it's done in a way that respects the user's privacy, which keeping the data 100% local absolutely does.

Re: Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

#292

Post by pweissbrod »

zie wrote: post #222
vorpalhex wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is being added to the browser, outside the realm of security updates, through what is supposed to be a UX improvement program, for commercial purposes. It's written by a commercial company that produces advertisement content. It's not clear this code is audited. Sorry, but I'm uninstalling firefox. They have broken the basic trust I have in them as a user to not push arbitrary code to my machine against my inter…

Have fun in Lynx. that's probably the only browser that wouldn't do something like this. Well maybe Safari, not because Apple wouldn't, but because they just don't care enough about ad revenue. Chrome: They leech everything they can get away with, granted it goes only to Google, but you know it's just to feed their never-ending ad-revenue goal. MS: They bypassed IE only ads, and went on to build ads into the entire O…

Software companies are like music bands. You might like their current album but next year they could totally sell out and go pop :)

Me, I keep it underground (qutebrowser at the moment) but I'm constantly in search of something better

Re: Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

#293

Post by callahad »

kuschku wrote: post #244
MikkoFinell wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you switching to Chrome, the browser that sends your every keystroke back to HQ?

Well, does it matter if I use Chrome, which sends everything I do back to Google Analytics, or if I use Firefox, which also sends my interaction with the Addon menu to Google https://github.com/mozilla/addons-frontend/issues/2785 and my browsing history to a German publishing, ad and tracking company (CliqZ belongs to the Burda Group) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15421708 ? In a previous discussion, a Mozilla…

This misrepresents and overstates the Google Analytics and Cliqz situations

1. Mozilla obtained specific legal / contractual protections around any data that we store in GA, as covered in this adjacent thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15932224.

2. We did briefly run an experiment with Cliqz, but that integration was only ever offered to 3. As a Mozilla employee myself, I'd be very interested in a citation for that statement re: Google.

Re: Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

#294

Post by smacktoward »

cjsuk wrote: post #251
zie wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have fun in Lynx. that's probably the only browser that wouldn't do something like this. Well maybe Safari, not because Apple wouldn't, but because they just don't care enough about ad revenue. Chrome: They leech everything they can get away with, granted it goes only to Google, but you know it's just to feed their never-ending ad-revenue goal. MS: They bypassed IE only ads, and went on to build ads into the entire O…

Gopher. That was content focused and so inflexible that it was hard to be a dick with it.

The original WWW was too. (It didn't have cookies, for instance, so there was no way to track a user from one page to another.)

When it got popular, smart people started bending it to make being a dick possible, which is how we got the Web of today. I don't doubt the same would have happened to Gopher, if it had been the one to get popular.

Re: Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

#295

Post by nyrikki »

kej wrote: post #253
lozenge wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Add a couple more buttons and hey, you've got a toolbar going. Why can't they just make a web browser that's... just a web browser? Chrome has never had buttons to email pages with gmail, record videos onto YouTube, share pages on G+ etc.

The default new tab in Chrome contains links to all of those things and more.

Not exactly a great example if Mozilla is trying to claim the high ground.

Re: Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

#296

Post by nasredin »

rkachowski wrote: post #86
AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #22

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/lookingglass The Mr. Robot series centers around the theme of online privacy and security. One of the 10 guiding principles of Mozilla's mission is that individuals' security and privacy on the internet are fundamental and must not be treated as optional. The more people know about what information they are sharing online, the more they can protect their privacy. ...which you've d…

>Firefox and Mr Robot have collaborated on a shared experience to further your immersion into the Mr Robot universe I guess that sounds slightly better than "Firefox and Universal Cable Productions".. oh wait.. At least it's an authentic immersion into the world of dubious computer ethics.

You won this thread.

It's not really "computer ethics" but rather, just "ethics".

Re: Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

#297

Post by callahad »

alkonaut wrote: post #212
alkonaut wrote: post #161

If they state as an explicit principle that no addons/studies are actually enabled unless the user opted in, then I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt that if that happened to users that did not opt in, it was a terrible mistake (I.e a bug). I can tolerate bugs, much more than I can tolerate sneaky app behavior. But I hope the statement about explicit opt-in will be repeated, and this will be explained. At…

I haven’t understood whether this thing is completely inert or actually does anything without opt in. If it is downloaded and listed without opt-in, but only actually invoked after opt-in, then I’ll call it acceptable (not great, but not terrible either)

The source is at https://github.com/gregglind/addon-wr/

Its startup is controlled by the addon/bootstrap.js file. Per line 22, it's completely inert unless the user manually toggles `extensions.pug.lookingglass` in about:config: https://github.com/gregglind/addon-wr/blob/59659431fd2a75c33...

Re: Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

#298

Post by UmmNope »

kryptiskt wrote: post #267
blauditore wrote: post #170

Many people seem to be shocked because Mozilla installed an add-on automatically. In my opinion, it doesn't really matter since the code is coming from Mozilla - they're building the whole browser, so they could introduce functionality anywhere. If someone distrusts their add-ons, why trust their browser at all? The main question is what behavior is being introduced. I haven't researched deeply, but apparently the ad…

The major problem is that they installed an add-on without properly communicating what it was. A somewhat smaller problem but still a big problem is that was an utterly frivolous add-on that shouldn't have been pushed to people who didn't explicitly want it. But the biggest problem is that Mozilla seems to have trouble understanding why any of those two would be a problem, I want my browser vendor to be serious and n…

The major problem was building a feature into the product that allowed for pushing add-ons without users knowledge much less active consent in the first place, there is no benign use for this kind of functionality.

Re: Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

#299

Post by callahad »

UmmNope wrote: post #211

Mozilla takes in about half a billion dollars per year, has anyone considered the consideration for which this money is being paid ?

That's FUD. Mozilla is a 501(c)3 non-profit, and our audited financial statements and IRS Form 990 can be found at https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/foundation/annualreport/

Re: Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

#300

Post by kuschku »

callahad wrote: post #293
kuschku wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, does it matter if I use Chrome, which sends everything I do back to Google Analytics, or if I use Firefox, which also sends my interaction with the Addon menu to Google https://github.com/mozilla/addons-frontend/issues/2785 and my browsing history to a German publishing, ad and tracking company (CliqZ belongs to the Burda Group) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15421708 ? In a previous discussion, a Mozilla…

This misrepresents and overstates the Google Analytics and Cliqz situations 1. Mozilla obtained specific legal / contractual protections around any data that we store in GA, as covered in this adjacent thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15932224 . 2. We did briefly run an experiment with Cliqz, but that integration was only ever offered to 3. As a Mozilla employee myself, I'd be very interested in a citatio…

> 1. Mozilla obtained specific legal / contractual protections around any data that we store in GA, as covered in this adjacent thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15932224.

Which requires that users trust Google.

The reason I use Mozilla products is exclusively because I do not trust Google. If Mozilla requires that I trust Google to keep my data safe (which Mozilla transmitted to them), then I have no reason to use Mozilla products.

> 2. We did briefly run an experiment with Cliqz, but that integration was only ever offered to Mozilla also invested into CliqZ, and a family member of mine was affected by the experiment – I live in Germany.

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