Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

eff.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 342 posts

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#291

Post by madeofpalk »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #67
mikeash wrote: post #56

All they had to do was implement it to cycle between three states: on, off-temporarily, and actually off. Or label the damned things. But no, they fundamentally changed how an important UI widget worked with no obvious indication that anything is different.

This decision seems so fundamentally "anti-Apple". What happened to "it just works"? Heck, they could have even promoted a third option as being super innovative (not like it is, but marketing "Now with 'WiFi Safe Sleep!' or something like that would have been the old Apple way).

Eh. Apple has always been about making decisions for 'you' to resolve the bigger problems for the most amount of users. People who don't fall into that are just collateral.

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#292

Post by madeofpalk »

briandear wrote: post #221
userbinator wrote: post #22

In other words, the WiFi actually has 3 states: Off, Idle/disassociated/disconnected, and Connected/Associated. Most people have experienced all 3 states, but it seems Apple is under the impression that users are too stupid to know the difference between them... The Wi-Fi will turn back full-on if you drive or walk to a new location. And both Wi-Fi and Bluetooth will turn back on at 5:00 AM. This is not clearly expla…

Use Siri. Or use airplane mode. This isn’t that hard. What’s the use case where you want to completely kill WiFi but not Bluetooth for “security?” If I am in a security sensitive environment, I use airplane mode. That’s it’s purpose: to completely shut down all radios.

Actually, Airplane mode (thankfully) no longer disables wifi.

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#293

Post by KozmoNau7 »

starquake wrote: post #286
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"At this point I’m not sure there’s a need for normal users to actually turn off Wi-Fi" To preserve battery. I don't know about iPhones, but on my Android phone, Wi-Fi is certainly the largest battery hog, if I leave Wi-Fi location scanning on.

That's strange. I have used Nexus phones since the first one that came out and I have never experienced any significant battery drain from either wifi or bluetooth. First was always screen, second Android system. Just checked again to make sure. Wifi 0%, Bluetooth 0%

Mine is usually wifi, then screen.

Right now wifi is at 8%, and I used it for maybe 15 minutes this morning, that's it.

Motorola Moto X Play, Android 6.0.1, for what it's worth.

As far as I know, Marshmallow has a battery drain issue, but Motorola (now Lenovo) does not seem to be interested in updating their software anymore.

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#294

Post by marcosscriven »

chrismbarr wrote: post #265
lumisota wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can 3D Touch the Settings icon to jump to the WiFi settings.

I'm on an iPhone 6, before 3D touch was introduced. Usually a long press is equivalent, but not here apparently. I just cannot get to this setting.

I noted the same thing in another thread, and was downvoted for some reason! Why should this be 3D touch only, if a long press also brings up a menu?

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#295

Post by golangnews »

madeofpalk wrote: post #284
golangnews wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't use 3D touch to turn off wifi. According to Apple you have go into settings to do so. https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT208086 The problems with this change are: It is surprising - grey buttons usually mean disabled permanently, not disabled except for some uses or for some indeterminate length of time. It changes established behaviour without a clear warning to the user. It is inconsistent - disabling blue…

> It is inconsistent - disabling bluetooth now disconnects from all devices (except Apple ones!) I was surprised by this, so I just tested it. Tapping the button immediately disconnected from my Apple bluetooth AirPods.

The exceptions are listed in that Apple article.

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#297

Post by khana »

Terretta wrote: post #6

> In an attempt to keep you connected to Apple devices and services, iOS 11 compromises users' security. No. It is in an attempt to resolve the real loss of money experienced by everyday users who turn off WiFi when it’s flakey and then forget to turn it back on, costing them cash on their cellular data plan. (And the very real frustration when things don’t work they expect to work, and they don’t know why.) Meanwhil…

Not this guy.

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#298

Post by _jal »

MBCook wrote: post #15
codefined wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This change would be absolutely fine to me if it were communicated to the user in any way whatsoever . The fact that I can upgrade and have no idea the behaviour unless I happen to read an EFF blogpost in the few hours it appears on HN isn't acceptable. Note how they even use privacy as one of the main (at least, in my opinion) selling point for Apple devices[0] ("Every Apple product is designed from the ground up to…

It IS communicated. If you just pull up control center and tap the button is says “Disconnected from ‘WiFiNetwork’”. If you expand the panel with 3D Touch or a long press under the WiFi icon it either says WiFiName or Not Connected. On the other hand the cellular radio says Off if you toggle it. This isn’t completely hidden. The information is there. And I agree with the other posters that this is a far better settin…

> At this point I’m not sure there’s a need for normal users to actually turn off Wi-Fi.

Define 'normal'. After I educated my (retired, nontechnical) mother about wifi and bluetooth tracking, she started turning them off when she left the house.

I think the folks who think this is just peachy are in their own bubble. 'Normal' (by my working definition) people do care about this stuff if they understand it. Thankfully, Apple gets this stuff right-ish more often than not, but in this case, I think they blew it.

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#299

Post by dreamcompiler »

MBCook wrote: post #15
codefined wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This change would be absolutely fine to me if it were communicated to the user in any way whatsoever . The fact that I can upgrade and have no idea the behaviour unless I happen to read an EFF blogpost in the few hours it appears on HN isn't acceptable. Note how they even use privacy as one of the main (at least, in my opinion) selling point for Apple devices[0] ("Every Apple product is designed from the ground up to…

It IS communicated. If you just pull up control center and tap the button is says “Disconnected from ‘WiFiNetwork’”. If you expand the panel with 3D Touch or a long press under the WiFi icon it either says WiFiName or Not Connected. On the other hand the cellular radio says Off if you toggle it. This isn’t completely hidden. The information is there. And I agree with the other posters that this is a far better settin…

I have Verizon unlimited data and I keep wifi turned off always. Decent wifi is hard to find these days but Verizon usually works and is faster, even when they throttle me after my initial 15GB is used up.

"Decent" means easy-to-access without jumping through a ton of hoops, being reliable after you jump through those hoops, and being faster than cellular data. Yes, my own wifi at home is decent, but when I'm away from home, I just assume there's no such thing as public wifi and use cellular data. My stress is lower that way.

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#300

Post by Xeoncross »

Just an added thought. I question the possible health side-effects of having a transmitter (even a small-power one) 14hrs a day on my hip or in my shirt pocket 2 inches from my baby's brain.

I learned the dangers of hi-power devices even at 10ft away - I prefer to turn off the wifi/bluetooth (at least) when possible.

Apple has made airplane mode really easy and quick until now, even when the phone is locked.

Post reply on HN