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ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

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Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#291
There seems to be a lot of comments about the dangers and how many people will not play nor let their friends and family play football again. I thought I should chime in.

I have had 3 major concussions in my lifetime where I blacked-out for some period of time, maybe, not counting the other ones where I did not lose consciousness or notice the hits as badly. I still love those contact sports but have quit them too.

I'll detail some of the issues that I had with concussions and what it felt like to have them (names and places have been changed to protect the guilty/innocent). I only played rugby in college and wrestled in HS, so my experiences with concussions are not football related. However, I think you should read this article first before going on into the wall of text below as that writer is much better than I am:

http://www.gq.com/story/the-concussion-diaries-high-school-f...

So, I guess that’s what happened to me too. Zac’s issues with body image, his sleeping problems, the drug addictions and the dependency. These are the reasons that I don’t ever mess with stuff. Because I know that I will end up like Zac, and that’ll just make it all so much worse. It all fits for me. Yeah, the good little scientist in me says that there can be a million and one reasons why that is all crap, genetics, development, those little flies to be batted about in your mind, annoying you. That self-doubt of a mosquito. But yeah, it all fits. Occams razor and all that jazz.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#292
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would you be OK allowing two consenting adults to fight to the death for pay? Given that scenario as stated? Sure, I'm all for it. Take away the gloves in boxing and we're pretty close to that. I'd be concerned about the negative incentives that could potentially exploit lower income people, but on its own I don't have a problem with it. I personally wouldn't do it, and I don't think I'd enjoy watching it, but I'm…

AIUI bare knuckle boxing is less dangerous than the big time stuff. Gloves protect the boxer doing the punching from breaking their fingers/hands, enabling them to do more damage to their opponents. You ain't punching a skull with your bare knuckles and hurting the other party much.

Ah, my mistake I suppose. I understood bare knuckle boxing is dangerous for the hands, but I also believed it was dangerous for the other party.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the rules could get reworked to make it less dangerous for brain injury. Take a cue from Australian Rules Football: remove all padding and make high tackles that endanger the head illegal.

Rugby and league have no padding and those rules. It doesn't appear to anywhere close to enough.

>no padding

This is offered as a solution a lot, but I am not sure if it would actually be effective. Football helmets were introduce early in the 20th century because dozens of people were dying every year playing football. Football helmets put an end to those deaths caused by acute trauma, but the physics of the game and those collisions haven't changed. Football is just a more violent game than Rugby due to various reasons like position specialization, more frequent stoppages of play, and the inherent directions of play for the offense and defense. It is rare to have two players in rugby running full speed at each other head on. That happens in football on nearly every play and often multiple times per play.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#294

There seems to be a lot of comments about the dangers and how many people will not play nor let their friends and family play football again. I thought I should chime in. I have had 3 major concussions in my lifetime where I blacked-out for some period of time, maybe, not counting the other ones where I did not lose consciousness or notice the hits as badly. I still love those contact sports but have quit them too. I…

One was in high school when a wrestling-mate punched me in the back of the head with his elbow while I was down. We were doing drills in the Mulituse room, the one next to the band rooms, on the mats. I was wearing an ungodly amount of clothes to cut weight. It was near the end of practice. I was sprawled out on the mat and my partner's job was to not let me up and make a 1 point escape. I just sat there until I could see a move out, as he was a much better wrestler than I was. He tried everything including putting his finger up my butt, a favorite move of his that I had expected I would have to endure, to get me to move at all so he could get a move to make. Near the end of the drill session, and I didn’t anticipate this, he just got on top of me and slammed his elbow into the back of my head, as he was so frustrated, and just said ‘Fuck you /u/Balgair!’. Thing is about these concussions, you remember weird things, and not all of it. I usually remembered the first few seconds to minutes afterwards, but then blanks fill it all out, like a floater in your eye, but in your mind. Not static, just, Nothing, and not even emotions too, just calmness at the nothingness. I hope that is what death is like, that it is calm too. So I remembered the first few seconds after the hit. I now know that it was a concussion, it didn’t hurt at all. In fact the only sensation I remember is a chill shiver all the way from my crown of my head down into my lower back, taking about 3 seconds to complete. I don’t remember if I could hear or see or talk in those seconds. Just that shiver of warmth and chill all at once. Then I remember that we were doing spawrl drills, all of us boys in all those sweat pants and sweaters. I remember in that sodium orange arc-lamp lighting of the room, "John" yelling at us to do thing, as he was the student-leader that day. I remember trying to do the drills, and then not being able to. I remember that John was yelling at us all and then yelling at me to do it. And I remember the shame that I felt when John made us do more because I wasn’t doing them up to John's standards. I think we had to do another 1/3rd more. Then it all just goes blank.

I think I have written about this before, but memory is hard. I’ll tell it again though, as another witnessing is probably good too as I don’t think that all the stories will match up 100%. The other time was actually with John too. I think we both got concussions real bad that day. John is a goofy foot. So, when we were doing pipe drills, he was falling the other way from most of the people next to him, like me. A pipe drill is when the other guy has your leg between his legs and has his arms wrapped around your thigh. Then that guys tries to take you down to the mat and pin you. So, typically, you use leverage and then try to swing the guy you are holding onto down. You go to the same side usually, as the foot you are holding, so if you hold the right leg, you then will swing the guy towards that side, so he falls on his back to the right side. Now, John being a lefty, had the opposite led being held, and that meant that he fell to the left and not the right like everyone else. That meant he fell into me. Specifically on this particular drill, his head fell into my head. I only remember the sound that it made, like a pulse of lightening. Just a really low, loud, crack. Maybe like a sheet of metal being thrown into a flat-bed. Then it’s just vignettes, or gifs, loops in my memory that I, to this day, just space out inside of. The chronology is shaky now, again, just different, files?, in my mind that are near that time period. You can put them in whatever order you want. I remember having my head in my hand, face down, I don’t know if I was sitting or standing, I was the one that was screaming, but I wasn’t telling myself to scream. I was listening to my voice scream, I wasn’t in control of myself, maybe my amygdala was, who knows. I don’t remember any sights or feelings outside of my hands and face and my hearing. Just numb otherwise. I remember sitting in the littler back room, I was back on the wall and legs bent upwards. I remember my fingers tingling really bad, like if you let them fall asleep on you for a hour. I remember spots in my vision, all purple and yellow, blue and brown, like a tye-dye shirt. Again, I felt like I was not me, like I was just watching a movie in theater of my eyes and my hands were these gloves of tingle sensations over whomever was remembering these things. I remember telling Coach about all this, like I wasn’t me, and he said ‘Get over it.’ It was so mean, so hateful, but I was numb and not talking, someone else was being talked to and doing the talking. I remember, really vaguely, the other coaches whispering, but I had no sight then. I knew they were talking about me and John, but I’ll never know what they said. I remember telling Coach I wanted to go to the nurse, who was literally the next door down from us, again, no vision in this memory. I remember Coach relenting and sounding exasperated, and I remember tasting vomit but not knowing if it was me or what had happened or why I tasted vomit, I remember finding it interesting that I tasted vomit and nothing more than interest. I remember the trainer, she was a smaller Asian woman, in a blue windbreaker and a white shirt, her black hair pulled back into a pony-tail. She was very tired of talking to me, like we had been talking for a while. She was looking up at Coach, so that means I must have been seated, though I don’t remember feeling like I was. There were noises of people playing and thumping basketballs in the other rooms. I remember she said to Coach ‘he has to go to a hospital’ and that Coach was angry about that, not concerned or worried, but just angry that I had to leave and that I got to skip out on practice, like that I should be punished for this whole affair, not that I should be going to a hospital and be treated like a baby. I remember pulling up to the hospital, in the darkness, the lights were shining up onto the hospital from lights in the ground, giving it a strange glow. I do not remember who drove me there or anything about the hospital at all in any way. I remember going out, some days later, to a Mexican place near Orinda. All I remember was walking into that place with Mom and Dad, but not my siblings. I remember telling myself that I was not going to eat anything so that I could cut weight. I remember a really big sombrero on the wall outside the place. I remember telling Mom years later that I don’t even remember that week or much of that month. I lost 25lbs in water weight later that week in order to make weight for a tournament. I failed at that, but that is yet another story.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#295

There seems to be a lot of comments about the dangers and how many people will not play nor let their friends and family play football again. I thought I should chime in. I have had 3 major concussions in my lifetime where I blacked-out for some period of time, maybe, not counting the other ones where I did not lose consciousness or notice the hits as badly. I still love those contact sports but have quit them too. I…

One was in high school when a wrestling-mate punched me in the back of the head with his elbow while I was down. We were doing drills in the Mulituse room, the one next to the band rooms, on the mats. I was wearing an ungodly amount of clothes to cut weight. It was near the end of practice. I was sprawled out on the mat and my partner's job was to not let me up and make a 1 point escape. I just sat there until I coul…

The last one that I remember is the one in rugby at college. We were doing takedown drills and I was to tackle one of the guys and he was trying to break through and score a try. I came at him and wrapped him up, and I think that he then used his elbow to try and drive me away. This time, again, he hit me on the crown of my head. There was that familiar shiver of warmth and chill that went down my spine for ~3 seconds. It was raining that day, lightly, and the field was totally mud. I got up after a bit from the blow. I was ready and in line with the guys to go at it again. Bob, the volunteer coach for the club, was trying to give directions on another iteration of the drill. He asked if there were any questions. I was still out of breath from the drills, and I asked him a question. But I didn’t have anything to say, all I knew was that I had to ask a question. I think a word salad came out of my mouth, that it was filled with stones or something. Bob looked at me like I was pulling his leg, like indignation at such a stunt. I again tried to say something, repeat myself through the huffs. Then I remember just falling down into the sloshy grey-brown mud , my arms at my sides, and just vomiting over and over and over just dry heaving in the middle of everyone and ruining the drill. I remember later, maybe 5 minutes?, one of the older and faster guys sitting me down in the try-zone and asking me who the president was (Bush). I still couldn’t talk right. I was shivering, but I wasn’t cold. They tried to cheer me up, saying it wasn’t that bad of a hit, that it only counts as a concussion if you get knocked out. It made someone feel better, but that person was again not me, I was just watching impassively, as someone else in my head marionetted me about. I remember that I talked to my room-mate's neurosurgeon father on the phone. He said not to fall asleep for a day, or I would die. I was really tired though and slept anyways.

I still miss those sports, incredibly so. I miss the hitting, the drills, the camaraderie. I miss the parties and the fraternity of other men. No where else in life have I had those kinds of close friendships, that brotherhood really. The price is these kinds of concussions and injuries. But, if you are looking at it from the outside, I want to tell you that I walked away because I found the price too high. Other 'brothers' of mine, guys whose back I had, they did not walk away and they are doing alright, in our own ways. Still, I want to say that though the price of those sports and that friendship was these types of injuries, it was still a very hard decision for me. If I could have a magic pill that would take even one concussion away from me, give me one more chance, I'd be back on those fields and on those mats in a heartbeat. It's not that easy to explain, but at least one person on HN really would trade a concussion for one more blow of the whistle.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rugby has also included head injury assessments (HIA) into its laws. They sports governing body introduced HIAs in 2012 and they have been getting more stringent over the years. At he elite level a player who is suspected of having taken a significant knock to the head can be substituted off the field for 10 minutes to be assessed by a doctor. The referee, assistant referees, sideline medics or the television match o…

The NFL actually has very similar rules involving suspected head injuries though in practice they seem arbitrarily enforced - especially if it involves a key player.

[deleted]

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#297
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hockey has the advantage that the sport could we reworked into something less violent. Hockey could survive a change to the rules that would reduce blows to the head. Football is such an intrinsically contact sport that I don't think a safer game would even be recognizable. Actually, that might be worse... If hockey turns out to have as bad a concussion problem, the leadership of the sport is likely even more culpabl…

In the UK we have rugby, a similar sport without all the armour. While there is a problem with concussions[1], it's nowhere near the scale of American Handball. [1] https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25182-rugby-players-w...

I think you know that rugby is played and known worldwide (even in the US), and that football refers to the fact that the players are on foot and in fact rugby, soccer and American football all share a common ancestor.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a bit where they measured the force of rugby -vs- football tackles. Football is 3 times harder. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7tGY-VDx3o Don't have much commentary on the subject and just wanted to share the vid. I'd only think that a difference like that can't really be resolved to padding.

It's a pretty unfair comparison, though I'd expect it's largely representative. A rugby union player has to run around the pitch for 2 bouts of 40 minutes [about 40 minutes of 'ball in play' time]. According to this article - https://qz.com/150577/an-average-nfl-game-more-than-100-comm... - the average NFL match is 11 minutes of action, in [average] 4s bursts, over a 3+ hour period. Many NFL positions can optimise fo…

> Many NFL positions can optimise for muscle mass without worrying about stamina and sustained speed.

Not just mass. What I often hear NFL athletes and trainers talk about maximizing "explosion" in their movements.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#299
post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK we have rugby, a similar sport without all the armour. While there is a problem with concussions[1], it's nowhere near the scale of American Handball. [1] https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25182-rugby-players-w...

I think you know that rugby is played and known worldwide (even in the US), and that football refers to the fact that the players are on foot and in fact rugby, soccer and American football all share a common ancestor.

> football refers to the fact that the players are on foot

Really? As opposed to what? Polo? Quidditch? Beer pong?

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great idea! Less head injuries, but still a hard-hittin' sport https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1aU0hz5Tf8

I have never seen this video. I always had heard that without the gear that rugby was less brutal than football -- but seriously I don't know. Those hits looked devastating... I could not watch that sport.

That's not rugby, it's Aussie Rules, but those are illegal tackles in both sports. I don't know why the poster chose a video of vicious fouls to make his point about safety.
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