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Toyota Research Institute head says full autonomous driving is “not even close”

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Re: Toyota Research Institute head says full autonomous driving is “not even close”

#291
It is quite a logical thing though. 90% full autonomous driving is not. And the first 90% of autonomous driving could very well be within reach of our software capabilities at the moment (or maybe 80%, but it will not change the discussion much).

You can only release it when you reach 100%, and if that last fraction takes the next 50 years then we really are not even close.

Re: Toyota Research Institute head says full autonomous driving is “not even close”

#292
post #274
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Folks are glossing over this quote too easily: > “Historically human beings have shown zero tolerance for injury or death caused by flaws in a machine,” It doesn't matter if it's objectively safer; people have no issue doing dangerous things so long as they can maintain the illusion of control.

I don' think that's true in terms of transportation systems. In terms of cars: Streets where built for people or animals walking on them and cars quickly started killing large numbers of people. The response was not to make cars safer by say physically limiting them to 10 MPH, but to remove people from streets. A fairly high fraction of early aviators where killed, that did little to slow adoption of aircraft. Astron…

Cost/benefit--if the rewards are judged to outweigh the risks and there is a clear benefit, people will adopt it. If money/time can be saved, it will be very popular.

Re: Toyota Research Institute head says full autonomous driving is “not even close”

#293
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even better than speech recognition, handwriting recognition. Hello, Apple Newton, may you rest in peace. I'm not convinced we'll have handwriting recognition within my lifetime, and if we do I imagine that shortly after I'll go looking for Sarah Connor :)

Automated reading of checks and of envelopes is working very well. Automated envelope reading is now so good that the USPS only has one center in the US where humans look at images of envelopes. They just look at the hard cases, and if they show up there, they're really hard.

Unfortunately you can't augment a level 5 self-driving car with human resources in an analogous way.

Re: Toyota Research Institute head says full autonomous driving is “not even close”

#294
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A little more context on the speech recognition part: I remember going to a trade show (many years ago) where a representative from one of the major speech recognition companies was showing off the technology. He wasn't just dictating text, but was also using the software to control the computer. I was floored by it. I was 100% convinced we had arrived at that dream of intelligent voice-computer interaction. I've fel…

> Sure, your sensors and cameras might be able to read signage correctly in 99% of conditions, but when there's graffiti on the sign at night during heavy rain, all bets are off. In the vast majority of the cases, that sign will have been seen by another autonomous car on a sunny day before it had graffiti, and stored in the map database. You should be comparing a whole fleet of autonomous vehicles learning from each…

What if the sign actually changes?

Re: Toyota Research Institute head says full autonomous driving is “not even close”

#295
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The economics couldn't be more different. Driver salary is 26% of the cost of trucking. Driver salary is 52% of the cost of a taxi. Those numbers are in the single digits for aircraft and trains. We could replace pilots and train operators, technologically speaking. But the incentives are not (yet) large enough to overcome the regulatory and cultural barriers. We'd rather have that extra order of magnitude of safety,…

>Driver salary is 52% of the cost of a taxi. If you drop the utilization, the cost of the driver as a percentage probably goes up a bit. But here's the thing about those numbers. Yes, driver salary is a big chunk of taxi cost but flip things around. It's only about half the cost. In other words, there's this widespread assumption that autonomy totally changes the nature of automobiles and automobile ownership even th…

1) Now the taxi can operate day and night without substantial breaks. That reduces per-passenger-mile amortization costs by at least a factor of 2.

2) Especially since amortization cost is also reduced, you might as well electrify the vehicle (this requires some sort of robot arm for fast charging, but I suppose you could pay someone like $0.50 per cycle to plug and unplug a bunch of vehicles in the interim). That reduces fuel costs by a factor of 2 and maintenance costs even more.

3) No driver means room for more people or ability to shrink the car, reducing all the above costs.

So you've now reduced all the other costs by a factor of 2. That means your overall costs are now reduced by 75% or more. Yeah, that's starting to look pretty attractive.

Re: Toyota Research Institute head says full autonomous driving is “not even close”

#296
post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious, isn't it? Humans rely on auditory information to enhance situational awareness so you'd think that would factor into the design of a machine that needs as much situational awareness as possible. For example, emergency response vehicles announce their arrival and direction often long before any visual contact is made. How will deaf autonomous cars recognize incoming emergency responders if the view is obstruc…

Are deaf people allowed to drive? How do you think they handle these situations?

There seems to be some limited automotive technology available that would convert sirens to visual signals, akin to doorbell or telephone strobes. But the more interesting adaptive technology seems to be a re-wiring of the brain. [0] Deprived of auditory input and with a heightened reliance on visual cues, the autonomous driving version might be something like Lidar + other driver facial recognition.

[0] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/superpowers-for-t...

Re: Toyota Research Institute head says full autonomous driving is “not even close”

#297
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im skeptical you can do real autonomous driving without context. In DC, we have roads that flow one direction part of the day and another direction the other part. We've got roads that will be shut down unpredictably when there is a diplomatic event. We've got constant construction, where a two lane road might be reduced to one lane with a human holding a sign or using hand signals to usher cars through on their turn…

It would not be too costly to augment roads with electronic signalling devices which give information to the software in cars. This information can do what signboards or traffic signals do for humans. The difficult part - when there is an error in these signals, or things shut down, autonomous cars will suffer much bigger problems than human driven cars. Its these edge cases that are the problem. We already rely on s…

> It would not be too costly to augment roads with electronic signalling devices which give information to the software in cars.

Sounds costly to me. There are a lot more roads than airport runways. And then the big question is: Who is going to pay for it?

Re: Toyota Research Institute head says full autonomous driving is “not even close”

#298
post #274
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Folks are glossing over this quote too easily: > “Historically human beings have shown zero tolerance for injury or death caused by flaws in a machine,” It doesn't matter if it's objectively safer; people have no issue doing dangerous things so long as they can maintain the illusion of control.

I don' think that's true in terms of transportation systems. In terms of cars: Streets where built for people or animals walking on them and cars quickly started killing large numbers of people. The response was not to make cars safer by say physically limiting them to 10 MPH, but to remove people from streets. A fairly high fraction of early aviators where killed, that did little to slow adoption of aircraft. Astron…

> The response was not to make cars safer by say physically limiting them to 10 MPH

Umm, reasonably sure that implementing a legal speed limit was an initial response, in the UK at least. It took a number of years (and likely a lot of propaganda, though I haven't looked that closely into it and history is, of course, written by the victors) to allow motorcars to use roads at anything close to a reasonable speed.

Check wikipedia out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limit#History

Re: Toyota Research Institute head says full autonomous driving is “not even close”

#299
post #187
post #6

> unveiled a new concept car, the Concept-i Man sure would be cool if any concept car ever presented were actually released. They do look fancy and futuristic.

> Man sure would be cool if any concept car ever presented were actually released. Not many are, but some are occasionally. I personally own one of the few existing Isuzu VehiCROSS vehicles. It started out as a concept car in the 1990s, then went into production virtually unchanged (only a tad under 6000 were ever made).

I saw one of those earlier this year in the Austin area. It was distinctive for sure. There aren't very many 2 door hatches and SUVs

Re: Toyota Research Institute head says full autonomous driving is “not even close”

#300
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Folks are glossing over this quote too easily: > “Historically human beings have shown zero tolerance for injury or death caused by flaws in a machine,” It doesn't matter if it's objectively safer; people have no issue doing dangerous things so long as they can maintain the illusion of control.

>the illusion of control. No, it's literal control. They'd rather operate a vehicle in a way that's statistically less effective (where effective is defined by a collection of algorithms, we all know how perfect algorithmic generated routes are) than lose that control for a small benefit. Control itself is worth something to people.

A very large factor in this reasoning is that people look at the statistics and then intuitively decide the statistics will not apply to them because they are much better than the average driver.
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