Sony plans to make vinyl records again • Hacker News Board

Re: Sony plans to make vinyl records again

#291

Post by Dylan16807 » Fri, Jun 30, 2017, 8:34 PM UTC

glenneroo wrote: post #244

alkonaut wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I can answer that: because vinyl now feels like timeless artifacts while CD's feel disposable and cheap. We thought vinyl was going the way of the dinosaur when the CD came, but now that they are back it feels like they are here to stay. Both vinyl and cds were bought to get the music the first time around. CD had no trouble displacing vinyl for the quality of the sound. But this time, when it's more about th…

I would even say that CDs really are somewhat disposable and cheap, they wear down after ~10 years and you often get scratches which cause your tracks to do the endless looping skip-skip-skip. I don't know how many DJ's I've heard play a scratched/skipping track, whereas Vinyl only skips if your tonearm weight is out of whack, the stage is bouncing, you accidentally bump the turntable (drugs are bad, mmmkay), or some…

If you're somewhat gentle with both, the CDs are going to last a lot longer.

Re: Sony plans to make vinyl records again

#292

Post by Dylan16807 » Fri, Jun 30, 2017, 8:39 PM UTC

flavio81 wrote: post #177

teilo wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no "stair-stepping" in digital recordings. The sample-rate of a CD exceeds the effective resolution of even the best vinyl pressing. Furthermore, the Nyquist limit guarantees that it is impossible to perceive the sample rate of a CD, and even with a bit-depth of 16, you have 50% more dynamic range than vinyl is capable of. Add to that the fact that a master is generally 96Khz, 24-bit.

This is theoric considerations, not practical. For frequencies from about 2Khz to the limit, the dynamic range of the LP is over 100dB. The quoted 60-66dB dynamic range is only because takes into account low frequency rumble. CDs are mastered with 44KHz sampling rate which is now generally accepted as too low for high quality audio. Yes according to Nyquist, you could capture up to 22KHz with no problem with such sam…

> CDs are mastered with 44KHz sampling rate which is now generally accepted as too low for high quality audio.

According to who?

Re: Sony plans to make vinyl records again

#293

Post by itsoggy » Fri, Jun 30, 2017, 8:40 PM UTC

I had a habit of collecting white labels and test pressings of house and dance tracks, I have no idea what most of them are called or who they are by, but I can think of one and remember where it is in the crates.

If I had a load of Track 1's in iTunes, I wouldn't have a clue!

Re: Sony plans to make vinyl records again

#294

Post by bamboozled » Fri, Jun 30, 2017, 8:41 PM UTC

jhbadger wrote: post #290

bamboozled wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can't be just about "nostalgia", because it's growing popular with teenagers of today.

Nostalgia can be about idealized versions of the past that one never experienced oneself though. When I was a teen there was a very popular TV show about the 1950s called "Happy Days" that was popular even among us teens who had no experience of the actual 1950s. Similarly, more recently, "Mad Men" about the 1960s.

Maybe they are simply enjoying that medium though? It's almost as if people are having a hard time coming to terms with that prospect.

I don't prefer learning or brainstorming using pencil and paper because they did it in the twenties, I do it because it's effective and I enjoy it, same for reading real books, I just enjoy them more than a Kindle (which I tried and find subpar)

Re: Sony plans to make vinyl records again

#295

Post by ovao » Fri, Jun 30, 2017, 8:45 PM UTC

bitJericho wrote: post #282

ovao wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a huge fan of CDs for this reason. I know I'm getting perfect, uncompressed digital audio. Ah, but you don't know! On Beck's Odelay Deluxe Edition release, for example, there are at least two tracks that came from a lossy source. I don't think it's something that happens often. But through some combination of factors it has happened before, and probably happens more often than people might be aware.

True. There's also issues with volume and with analog to digital conversions. But even still, almost any cd is better than it's analog equivalent in just about every measure.

Certainly true. Even some of the earliest CD masters are still very good, relatively. By most standards it took a fairly short amount of time for CD audio to reach a high standard for quality (loudness wars aside).

Re: Sony plans to make vinyl records again

#296

Post by Dylan16807 » Fri, Jun 30, 2017, 8:58 PM UTC

torrent-of-ions wrote: post #84

hashkb wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please define "warmer" and compare to how 100 other vinyl buffs define it. It's meaningless, if you just admit it's an emotional preference then I'm fine with it.

Define jovial. Define melancholic. It's music. The entire point is to evoke an emotional response. I can't define "warm" but people know what I mean when I say it and that's all that matters.

Music can be jovial or melancholic. Not recording technologies. Technologies can have varying ability to carry certain kinds of music, but we can describe that ability with objective terms.

Do people actually know what you mean by "warm"? Are you sure it's not just a way of saying "the things you like about vinyl (varying per person)"? Because a definition like that would be a perfect example of something that's an association-based preference rather than a attribute-based preference. Which like hashkb said is perfectly fine to have, but makes the term pretty meaningless.

Re: Sony plans to make vinyl records again

#297

Post by chaoticmass » Fri, Jun 30, 2017, 9:23 PM UTC

Article says the cassette tape was released to music fans in 1963, but really the cassettes and players at that time were mostly used for dictation and voice recordings only because the quality was not high enough for music. Cassettes did not start to be used for music until much later. Dubious reporting from WaPo.

Re: Sony plans to make vinyl records again

#298

Post by kovek » Fri, Jun 30, 2017, 9:24 PM UTC

bcrescimanno wrote: post #144

As someone who started collecting vinyl about 3 years ago, it's about the difference between passive and active involvement in music. So much of our music consumption these days is a largely passive activity. We have music in our headphones while we work. We have music on in our cars while we drive. We have music on in the background of social events. While modern digital formats have given us true ubiquity of music…

I had a friend tell me about how there was a group that wanted to see how much time do surfers actually spend surfing. It turns out, only 1% of the time they put into getting set up to surf a wave are they actually surfing waves. Still, it's a very fun sport. It seems like working up to that moment is very important and has some positive elements in itself.

That is similar to how using vinyls allows you to have some buffer before and after listening to music or a musical piece. You can't have the same high all the time. Similarly, you can't enjoy that one part of a song for 10 minutes. Similarly, you can't music playing all the time at the same level as you can enjoy some music (that you like) playing sometimes.

Re: Sony plans to make vinyl records again

#299

Post by ksk » Fri, Jun 30, 2017, 10:06 PM UTC

skciva wrote: post #272

ksk wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So you don't understand why people like something and dismiss it as silly hipster bias? Yeah, it can seem annoying when someone does that to what you like, but all humans do this at some level. Its same thing as when someone insists that a $7,000 bottle of wine makes you sit down and have a personal experience with the wine, makes you appreciate the weight of the wine, its powerful robust swirling texture, and its a…

I see your point and won't pretend there isn't an air of pretentiousness surrounding some who purchase records. I think any hobby will have its fair share of smugness at the top. Also comparing listening to records as consulting tarot cards is a bit extreme don't you think?

>I see your point and won't pretend there isn't an air of pretentiousness surrounding some who purchase records.

I was part of the smug audiophile brigade. Still bitter about buying those $700 headphones!

>Also comparing listening to records as consulting tarot cards is a bit extreme don't you think?

Hehe, yeah maybe a tad bit :)

Re: Sony plans to make vinyl records again

#300

Post by mixmastamyk » Fri, Jun 30, 2017, 10:12 PM UTC

bcrescimanno wrote: post #144

As someone who started collecting vinyl about 3 years ago, it's about the difference between passive and active involvement in music. So much of our music consumption these days is a largely passive activity. We have music in our headphones while we work. We have music on in our cars while we drive. We have music on in the background of social events. While modern digital formats have given us true ubiquity of music…

We noticed this the other day dusting off our last records, there was artwork to look at and lyrics to read and one even had two posters inside.