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Are Google, Amazon and others getting too big?

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Re: Are Google, Amazon and others getting too big?

#291

Post by xg15 »

joshuamorton wrote: post #206
0x737368 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you need to consider the amount of data Google is amassing from people using solely their services. And then sells that data to advertisers. If this trend continues eventually they'd be able to know more about you than even the closest of your friends. Is this really such a great price to pay for your privacy? For it to be easier to look up your friend's phone number from your email list?

I'm just curious, what data do you believe google gives to advertisers? I work at google, and I see this trope on HN a lot, and I always like to see what data people think is given away, since a lot of the time they seem to be under the impression that either Google's privacy policy is different than it actually is, or that Google's privacy policy isn't actually something that Google follows, or that it doesn't prote…

> a lot of the time they seem to be under the impression that either Google's privacy policy is different than it actually is, or that Google's privacy policy isn't actually something that Google follows, or that it doesn't protect them from something for some reason.

Sorry, last year we've seen how several large car makers have had systematically undermined environmental regulations for years. That does not exactly inspire a lot of faith regarding self-policed, "we'll promise really really hard" privacy policies to me.

Re: Are Google, Amazon and others getting too big?

#292

Post by enraged_camel »

johnchristopher wrote: post #264
zanny wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waze is basically Google maps with a Skinner Box on top to make you contribute data to it for points and gold stars. Since Google bought them, they canibalized the crowdsourced data for Maps anyway, and have never updated the Waze UI so it looks like a Fisher Price toy today. There is really no reason to use it over Google Maps.

I don't know about Google maps in the US but in Europe it doesn't warn of dangers on the road (cars on the side of the road, blocked roads, etc.). Waze do.

It warns about police checkpoints as well.

Re: Are Google, Amazon and others getting too big?

#293

Post by joshuamorton »

0x737368 wrote: post #282
joshuamorton wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Even if it happens within a platform it's still a very concerning problem. I don't necessarily disagree, but "Xcorp is presenting personal data that you've released publically in a misleading way" very different than "Xcorp is giving personal data that you assumed was private away to third parties". I think the second is a lot more serious than the first. >If a company decided to put cameras in people's homes to imp…

>Google Now recommends news articles to me, it can give me reminders about upcoming events from my emails and Google gives me some personalized search features (ie. if I type "frequent flyer number" into the default google search bar, my number appears, scraped from an email years ago). Those features have a utility that I couldn't get from an application that didn't track information about me. And I think that's the…

>And I think that's the main difference between our viewpoints. Personally, I'm not ok with a company having so much information about me just for the sake of convenience. I'd rather have to write my own scripts to scrape through news feeds or just continually check blogs that I like rather than a company having all that data about me.

This is a fair view to hold (I think the rest of your post goes off into slippery slope land, but its based on a realistic fear), but at the same time, I think you need to be aware that you (or I) won't be able to recreate some of the things that these companies can do, no matter how much time or effort we invest.

Its also worth realizing that you're essentially stating that these experiences should be inaccessible to those who are nonexperts. That is, if in your perfect world, MiGooBookZon doesn't exist, and you make due with a set of scripts that you wrote that scrape some RSS feeds you care about and order articles based on some ratings you hardcoded for personal use, where does that leave all of the people who don't have the technical chops to write a set of personal scripts to scrape the news sources that interest them?

Re: Are Google, Amazon and others getting too big?

#294

Post by strin »

h1d wrote: post #274
TulliusCicero wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: I work at Google > The world is a better place with lots of smaller companies. [citation needed] A lot of things Google does -- a lot of the things people actually like about Google -- are possible only because it's a huge monolith. Divorce the ad-making money machine, and say goodbye to all the services consumers like that are nowhere near as profitable: gmail, maps, photos, chrome, android, translate, y…

How are gmail, maps and chrome not profitable? It's a gold mine for data mining. As long as personally identifiable data is out of public's reach, Google is free to trace part of people's life and sell anonymized data to ad targeting or whatever company let alone the gov that's interested. If you're not paying, you're selling yourself.

Sure, Google can monetize from these products. But they don't seem to choose to capture those values yet, as long as "Don't be evil" credendum still holds.

Re: Are Google, Amazon and others getting too big?

#295

Post by joshuamorton »

xg15 wrote: post #291
joshuamorton wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just curious, what data do you believe google gives to advertisers? I work at google, and I see this trope on HN a lot, and I always like to see what data people think is given away, since a lot of the time they seem to be under the impression that either Google's privacy policy is different than it actually is, or that Google's privacy policy isn't actually something that Google follows, or that it doesn't prote…

> a lot of the time they seem to be under the impression that either Google's privacy policy is different than it actually is, or that Google's privacy policy isn't actually something that Google follows, or that it doesn't protect them from something for some reason. Sorry, last year we've seen how several large car makers have had systematically undermined environmental regulations for years. That does not exactly…

So just to clarify, because a different company, in a different industry, did something illegal that had nothing to do with privacy, you don't trust privacy policies?

Re: Are Google, Amazon and others getting too big?

#296

Post by [deleted] »

lisper wrote: post #73
virmundi wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe. Depends if they set themselves up as a co-op. They could instead essentially start as a highly focused VC. At that point the control will probably rest in the hands of the board and management.

But the investors have the power to replace the board. This is called "representative democracy" and it's widely considered, despite its flaws, a better way to govern human affairs than dictatorship or oligarchy.

[deleted]

Re: Are Google, Amazon and others getting too big?

#297

Post by strin »

I highly recommend the book "Master Switch" by Tim Wu on this topic. (https://www.amazon.com/Master-Switch-Rise-Information-Empire...).

It argues that every information networks in the history- telegraph, telephone, radio, cable - follow the pattern of consolidation and disintegration. The new inventions always had the chance to disrupt the old industry, but our modern network - the Internet - might be an exception. Because the Internet is the master switch of all things digitized.

Re: Are Google, Amazon and others getting too big?

#298

Post by joshuamorton »

h1d wrote: post #277
joshuamorton wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just curious, what data do you believe google gives to advertisers? I work at google, and I see this trope on HN a lot, and I always like to see what data people think is given away, since a lot of the time they seem to be under the impression that either Google's privacy policy is different than it actually is, or that Google's privacy policy isn't actually something that Google follows, or that it doesn't prote…

Aggregated? They can cross reference one's data across all their services. So, let's say your Android phone let's Google know where you live, work and hang around by checking maps history and gps records, and they accumulate all the search words and they know who you are, really and check every email for finding who is related and they can really come up with a model of what kind of person you are at any specific mom…

But that's not what I asked. Let's assume for a moment that you trust google completely, and believe that they won't do anything untoward with your data on their platform. But we all know that google gives some data to advertisers. I'm asking what you think that data is, hence I asked

>I'm just curious, what data do you believe google gives to advertisers?

It sounds like you're saying that Google has a lot of information on you, which is probably true, but how much of that gets given to third parties? (and if you're claiming that the information you described is given to third parties, I'm confident that you're mistaken).

Re: Are Google, Amazon and others getting too big?

#299

Post by seanp2k2 »

enraged_camel wrote: post #292
johnchristopher wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about Google maps in the US but in Europe it doesn't warn of dangers on the road (cars on the side of the road, blocked roads, etc.). Waze do.

It warns about police checkpoints as well.

It also has better community mapping as of a few years ago. Everyone in Costa Rica uses it because some of the roads just aren't on GMaps. Also works better with e.g. Road closures due to trees falling in the jungle (and because everyone uses it).

Re: Are Google, Amazon and others getting too big?

#300

Post by winstonewert »

BenoitEssiambre wrote: post #103
winstonewert wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As with all progressive taxation schemes, it tends to have problems because those people who you are trying to tax more heavily have the best resources to restructure their affairs to avoid the taxation.

But that's true of any tax. I don't think it is specific to progressive ones. To me, the fact that larger entities are better at avoiding paying part of their taxes is an additional argument to make them start at a higher rate.

Yes, but its worse with progressive ones.

A progressive tax increases the per-dollar incentive to find a loophole as the amount of money increases.

Furthermore, by taxing different businesses at different rates it creates just the sort of loopholes that such avoidance takes advantage of. (I.e. a large business will try to find a way to count as two smaller businesses)

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