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CEOs Want Their Offices Back

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Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#291

Post by Florin_Andrei »

sfifs wrote: post #232
varelse wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like the cargo cult Agile pandemic peaked a few years ago, I suspect we're reaching peak open floor plans right now. The overall negative effects of an open floor plan for a significant fraction of engineers (though not all) is self-evident and backed up by reams of data stretching back nearly 40 years: http://iansommerville.com/software-engineering-book/web/work... TLDR: 100 square feet of personal space is opt…

> I suspect we're reaching peak open floor plans right now I doubt it simply because it's way way cheaper to have open floor plans than rooms. Savings on materials, easier compliance with fire safety, way higher density.

> higher density

One day someone will look up and notice that whole unused third dimension in the office.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#292

Post by Corrado »

ericd wrote: post #214
deepGem wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at Sun Microsystems for a while and their private office layout was really nice. I can't ballpark the exact size but the office could hold 3 gigantic CRT monitors, 2 desk phones, and had space for 2 visitors. I feel that a 2 person private office is quite optimal, since we are talking about teams. It's easier to pair program or discuss and even maintain silence when required. Office designers will have to pa…

How would you feel about larger offices that fit ~8, and housed your entire immediate team, but no one else? Your manager would go to another room for their meetings with other parts of the organization, and you all would be free to collaborate as needed, or shut up as needed?

I think one of my best working environments had two pods of 4 people each in one closed off room. One pod had developers and the other had non developers (project leaders, DBAs, etc.) It combined just the right amount of togetherness and separate space and worked wonderfully!

Another great environment was inside an old bank vault. Me and one other developer. No windows, two doors, lights down low, thumping techno music. Ah, bliss...

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#293

Post by s73ver »

j2bax wrote: post #238
ashark wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely part of it. Businesses are afraid developers will come to regard themselves, and to be regarded, as real professionals, like doctors, lawyers, some categories of engineer (god forbid they stop cowering around the MBAs or start questioning the ethics of... well, anything, really!) Systemically keeping their tastes and station "lower" than that is probably part of what's going on, especially with the bigger…

Cry me a river. I know a lot of nurses and teachers that feel really bad for the poor software engineer class.

So tell me, what's the exact dollar amount one can make before they're forbidden from talking about the downsides of their job?

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#294

Post by s73ver »

hiram112 wrote: post #277
j2bax wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cry me a river. I know a lot of nurses and teachers that feel really bad for the poor software engineer class.

What's that supposed to mean? RNs and Nurse Practioners make at least as much as the typical software engineers in SV. The $175-$250K+ that some of the senior guys at Google and FB make is not typical. Most of us in the rest of the country are probably making about $100K, and that's when we start becoming over-priced. And teachers? I have respect for them, but I don't consider what they do necessarily difficult, espe…

"And teachers? I have respect for them, but I don't consider what they do necessarily difficult, especially in lower grades."

Given the impact teachers have, and knowing what a little shit I was as a kid, I cannot agree with that statement.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#295

Post by asavadatti »

dmitrygr wrote: post #286
khazhoux wrote: post #227

We have an open floor plan, and it works like this: * Desk area is for getting work done. Everyone agrees on this. * We have "phone rooms" for small discussions. But we limit those usually to 1:1s or discussing office politics. * Try to limit all discussions at the desk area to 5 people or less. * If someone sighs loudly as they put on their headphones when you're having a discussion right behind them, then that is t…

> A person working WITH headphones on, signifies that it's ok to tap them on the shoulder to ask them a question. what? headphones = NOT NOW! if you need something, email The whole point of headphones is to not be disturbed. How does that indicate to you that i want you to suddenly disturb me by touching me unexpectedly.

Whoosh!

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#296

Post by Arizhel »

martinknafve wrote: post #201
Arizhel wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mechanical keyboards are better for RSI and general comfort. If you don't like them, complain to your manager that you need walled offices.

Any source for the statement on RSI? I googled but just found anecdotes.

Anecdotes are the best you're going to get on that. Who's going to fund a serious scientific study on the effects of mechanical keyboards on RSI? The mechanical keyboard makers comprise a very small, niche industry these days.

The anecdotes are correct: with a proper mechanical keyboard, you don't have to bottom out on the keys, and only have to press enough to make them click. Once you retrain yourself to do that, then you're putting a lot less stress on your fingers, compared to rubber-dome keyboards where you're forced to mash the keys down until they bottom out.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#297

Post by darioush »

khazhoux wrote: post #227

We have an open floor plan, and it works like this: * Desk area is for getting work done. Everyone agrees on this. * We have "phone rooms" for small discussions. But we limit those usually to 1:1s or discussing office politics. * Try to limit all discussions at the desk area to 5 people or less. * If someone sighs loudly as they put on their headphones when you're having a discussion right behind them, then that is t…

"Engineers tend to be extroverted"

Where did you get your statistics on that one?

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#298

Post by cortesoft »

darioush wrote: post #297
khazhoux wrote: post #227

We have an open floor plan, and it works like this: * Desk area is for getting work done. Everyone agrees on this. * We have "phone rooms" for small discussions. But we limit those usually to 1:1s or discussing office politics. * Try to limit all discussions at the desk area to 5 people or less. * If someone sighs loudly as they put on their headphones when you're having a discussion right behind them, then that is t…

"Engineers tend to be extroverted" Where did you get your statistics on that one?

The Big Book of Sarcastic Stats

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#299

Post by bradlys »

darioush wrote: post #297
khazhoux wrote: post #227

We have an open floor plan, and it works like this: * Desk area is for getting work done. Everyone agrees on this. * We have "phone rooms" for small discussions. But we limit those usually to 1:1s or discussing office politics. * Try to limit all discussions at the desk area to 5 people or less. * If someone sighs loudly as they put on their headphones when you're having a discussion right behind them, then that is t…

"Engineers tend to be extroverted" Where did you get your statistics on that one?

Sarcasm University.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#300

Post by Declanomous »

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #285
Declanomous wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I technically work in marketing, and even I don't think that open-offices are better. A private office is way more productive for the 75% of the time we aren't collaborating. It is a lot easier to write and design things when it is quiet. The idea that creative extroverted people work better the more riotous an environment is is absolute nonsense.

> The idea that creative extroverted people work better the more riotous an environment is is absolute nonsense. The only place where that worked well was the old-timey trading floor, as seen in Gary Cooper-era movies.

My dad worked on the floor of the Chicago Option Exchange for years. Even the craziest open-outcry pits were way more organized than any movie has made them seem.

I'm sure trading is way more productive now that it's done from a desk in an office, in the same way that auctions done online are probably more productive than auctions conducted in-person.

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