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Westinghouse Files for Bankruptcy, in Blow to Nuclear Power

nytimes.com

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Re: Westinghouse Files for Bankruptcy, in Blow to Nuclear Power

#291

Post by duncan_bayne »

smsm42 wrote: post #226
koolba wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That problem is so very far from solved, and it's a massive problem. I thought the problem was solved: 1. Dig hole. 2. Put it in hole. 3. Guard hole.

There's a fourth dimension to it - remembering why the hole needs to be guarded for 10000 years. And if you imagine trying to have a conversation with a human from 10000 years ago, you'll realize how non-trivial that is - no language, culture or knowledge capture system would survive for this long intact. There is a fascinating body of research about how to solve this problem (with no definite answer). E.g. see https…

> There's a fourth dimension to it - remembering why the hole needs to be guarded for 10000 years.

I can imagine some sort of post-apocalyptic copper age religion where the religious brotherhood exist to guard the 'cursed caves', without understanding why. But everyone knows that people who enter the caves either die at the hands of the strangely deformed beasts who live there, or of a mysterious sickness sometime afterwards.

Yeah, I probably played too much D&D as a child :)

Re: Westinghouse Files for Bankruptcy, in Blow to Nuclear Power

#292

Post by vkou »

lostlogin wrote: post #187
opo wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>...That mistrust is based on historical facts What historical facts would those be? Historically nuclear has been about the safest form of mass power when looking at accidents: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_accidents Anything at all related to nuclear is covered by the media orders of magnitude more than other power sources so people have an understandable perception that it is much more dangerous than the re…

It's a little dishonest to state a casualty rate when the spent, toxic fuel going to be deadly for a few hundred thousand years yet. That problem is so very far from solved, and it's a massive problem.

It's also dishonest to claim (Without any qualifications) that spent nuclear fuel will be deadly for hundreds of thousands of years.

Which isotopes? Deadly in what amounts? How many people do you expect our spent fuel will kill over the next ~100 years? ~1000 years? ~100,000 years?

How many people do you expect coal pollution/AGW will kill over the next ~100 years? ~1000 years? How many people will hydro dam disasters kill over the next ~100 years? Because that's the alternative we're looking at.

Re: Westinghouse Files for Bankruptcy, in Blow to Nuclear Power

#293

Post by kodfodrasz »

jessaustin wrote: post #171
brilliantcode wrote: post #27

I believe the nuclear power industry largely started out as a way to justify world's largest nuclear warhead stockpile. I believe it was on a show from Netflix that discussed the history of nuclear power. It worked remarkably well.

Yeah the marketing worked so well you can still read it on HN from well-informed nuke fans, even those who would deny being militarists.

I heard that solar panels are used on military satellites...

Some bombs use essentially tiny wind turbines to measure fall, and ready the fuse when far enough from the releasing plane...

Now who's the militarist? :)

Re: Westinghouse Files for Bankruptcy, in Blow to Nuclear Power

#294

Post by samstave »

donarb wrote: post #219
kwhitefoot wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He died of cancer as they didnt quite yet know that radiation was a problem for human health when they started out... That's putting it a bit strong, after all Marie Curie died of "aplastic anemia brought on by exposure to radiation" in 1934. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Curie And "actress Midori Naka, present during the bombing, was studied extensively for radiation poisoning. Her death in 1945 was the firs…

And before that, women were poisoned with radium, which was used to mark watch dials with luminous paint. What's remarkable was that executives and scientists were aware of the toxic nature of the radioactive paint, yet the women were instructed to use their lips to form points on their brushes to make the painting more precise. Lawsuits happened in the 1930's. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium_Girls

Yup... and I recall having a Radium clock in my grandparents house when I was a child... I can still see the thing in my minds eye.

It looked very similar to this:

https://img1.etsystatic.com/163/0/7022168/il_340x270.1212341...

Re: Westinghouse Files for Bankruptcy, in Blow to Nuclear Power

#295

Post by vkou »

markvdb wrote: post #211
vkou wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got some bad news about hydro dams for you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hydroelectric_power_st... > 1,917 deaths > 26,000 dead from flooding, 145,000 dead from subsequent famine and epidemics, 11 million homeless. > 1800 - 25000 people killed > 75 fatalities, due to turbine failure There's also the part where we have tapped out the Earth's exploitable hydro capacity. Hydro output is expected to grow by…

A large part of hydro actually is storage rather than production though. It's most valuable as a stabiliser for the electricity network.

Yes, but it also doubles up as a fairly reliable source of baseline power.

It's a great energy source. It's also incredibly dangerous, and cannot replace coal.

Re: Westinghouse Files for Bankruptcy, in Blow to Nuclear Power

#297

Post by joveian »

killjoywashere wrote: post #290
philipkglass wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 1980s and later parts of the 1970s, nuclear projects in the US did face the impossible challenge of regulations that shifted as projects were underway. But that doesn't apply here, AFAICT. The American AP1000 projects began work on their nuclear sections, starting with basemat concrete, in March 2013. The regulations haven't changed since the new American units began construction. Regulations were supposed to…

> modular design also allows for ... I don't think I've ever seen the prediction of such sentences bear out as planned. The word "modular" seems to have a way of taking big bites out a project's end performance and destroying budgets.

It seems to work out ok for these folks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broad_Sustainable_Building

Re: Westinghouse Files for Bankruptcy, in Blow to Nuclear Power

#298

Post by microcolonel »

vkou wrote: post #292
lostlogin wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a little dishonest to state a casualty rate when the spent, toxic fuel going to be deadly for a few hundred thousand years yet. That problem is so very far from solved, and it's a massive problem.

It's also dishonest to claim (Without any qualifications) that spent nuclear fuel will be deadly for hundreds of thousands of years. Which isotopes? Deadly in what amounts? How many people do you expect our spent fuel will kill over the next ~100 years? ~1000 years? ~100,000 years? How many people do you expect coal pollution/AGW will kill over the next ~100 years? ~1000 years? How many people will hydro dam disaster…

Furthermore, people don't understand that decommissioning coal reactors is also time consuming and dangerous. Here in Toronto, the Richard L. Hearn Generating Station was decommissioned in 1983 and remains quite radioactive, despite not even burning coal in its later years. There is a 24 hour guard presence.

Re: Westinghouse Files for Bankruptcy, in Blow to Nuclear Power

#299

Post by madengr »

LordKano wrote: post #49
killjoywashere wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can, take that job. You will not regret it. Consider this: that tech rep probably had a resume that a dozen companies would kill for, and he's still at Westinghouse. Flying across the planet, landing on aircraft carriers.

I have noticed that people who get hired there retire from there. I'll continue to consider it in the future.

Assuming the Westinghouse bankruptcy does not relieve them of pension obligations, etc.

Re: Westinghouse Files for Bankruptcy, in Blow to Nuclear Power

#300

Post by minton »

opo wrote: post #130
MichaelApproved wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Newer reactor designs can avoid these issues. I have a fundamental mistrust of the industry and our government's ability to properly regulate it. That mistrust is based on historical facts. Even with newer designs, I think human error and regulatory capture is too dangerous to make nuclear viable.

>...That mistrust is based on historical facts What historical facts would those be? Historically nuclear has been about the safest form of mass power when looking at accidents: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_accidents Anything at all related to nuclear is covered by the media orders of magnitude more than other power sources so people have an understandable perception that it is much more dangerous than the re…

http://www.npr.org/2017/03/29/521926674/climate-friendly-coa...
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