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Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

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Re: Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not familiar with the legal definition of "counterfeit" so you may be correct. I'm using the common definition of counterfeit, meaning a falsified imitation product that is usually low-quality and always produced by a third party who has "reverse-engineered" the target product. To most people, "counterfeit" does not mean literally the same product, produced by literally the same people, even if the company who co…

As a fellow layman I disagree with your anecdotal definition. I definitely consider this excess production to be counterfeit.

It's counterfeit branding but it's not counterfeit production. It's worth distinguishing the two, at least in terms of consumer harm.

Re: Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>authentic products, but "not authorized" because they were factory overruns These are counterfeit products. When you contract with a factory to make 10K units with your brand on them, they aren't allowed to use your brand to sell any number of "overruns" past that.

I'm not familiar with the legal definition of "counterfeit" so you may be correct. I'm using the common definition of counterfeit, meaning a falsified imitation product that is usually low-quality and always produced by a third party who has "reverse-engineered" the target product. To most people, "counterfeit" does not mean literally the same product, produced by literally the same people, even if the company who co…

And when I file a warranty claim on this overrun product and the manufacturer sees that the serial is not on file and refuses to fulfil it what then?

Re: Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

#293
post #163

Counterfeits in comingled inventory has become pretty common on Amazon these days. "Fulfillment by amazon" has led them to comingle inventories on common products, meaning every seller's product gets jumbled together. I've gotten counterfeit huggies diapers from amazon (invalid serial number for huggies 'points' and different build quality), Mach 3 razor blades, GE MWF Water filters, even a counterfeit baby bath. The…

Crap, "fulfilled by Amazon" was my last line of defense against crap products, variable shipping, unacceptable state at arrival, etc etc. Even at that, I recently bought two books, both arrived damaged. Returned them (I really don't want to have to do that, and I thought "fulfilled by" would reduce that likelihood), and the replacements were damaged. I gave up.

While "fulfilled by Amazon" can no longer guarantee something isn't counterfeit, they still do and process the return and will get you your money back at least (and the issue/loss will absolutely land in the sellers lap). At least they are still providing that safety net at the moment. But once they start pushing back on Prime members and this process things will nose dive at Amazon. I'm certain their are people scamming Amazon and seller's abusing that process too. It's only a matter of time until something changes...

Re: Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

#294
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have bought this one: http://a.co/7XcZoUf Is that one a fake too? Going by the "Lenovo" seller and the fact that the seller also sells a ton of other Lenovo branded stuff makes me feel better, but who knows...

I bought this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006OQJO4C/ref=oh_aui_sear... I'm not sure it is a fake or not. I looks a little "off" to me. Maybe real but intended for a foreign market? Hasn't burnt my house down yet, so that's something.

Upbright makes cheap PSUs, so I suspect its a fake.

Re: Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not familiar with the legal definition of "counterfeit" so you may be correct. I'm using the common definition of counterfeit, meaning a falsified imitation product that is usually low-quality and always produced by a third party who has "reverse-engineered" the target product. To most people, "counterfeit" does not mean literally the same product, produced by literally the same people, even if the company who co…

And when I file a warranty claim on this overrun product and the manufacturer sees that the serial is not on file and refuses to fulfil it what then?

If access to a warranty is what qualifies something as counterfeit, then almost everything we buy is counterfeit!

To be eligible for warranty claims, one frequently must register the product in advance and provide proof that it was purchased from an authorized retailer. There are a variety of other conditions that disqualify products for warranty coverage, so much so that it's practically always a crap shoot whether a given manufacturer will process the warranty claim or reject it with a flimsy justification.

Second-hand purchases are also generally not respected for warranty claims, but we don't consider everything sold used counterfeit.

If you anticipate utilizing warranty coverage, you have to cross all the is and dot all the ts. That's a class of consumer that isn't just going to buy from a third-party seller on Amazon without making sure that they're authorized and legitimate.

I'll also take this opportunity to note that this entire tangent arose out of a parenthetical statement where I indicated that I know someone who was selling what I consider to be non-counterfeit items from factory overruns. Nitpicks over the definition are not really related to the claim I was originally making. The anecdote remains valuable in its original context, which is that Amazon is policing FBA sellers more and more aggressively. Didn't mean to trigger a long subthread about the precise definition of "counterfeit" and whether or not a product has to be eligible for warranty to be authentic. ;)

Re: Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon offers the option to NOT commingle inventory, but the FBA seller has to opt-in. Somewhat counterintuitively, if you know that the third-party seller has done this, you're safer buying from the trusted FBA seller rather than Amazon.com. Amazon.com will ship you anything that an FBA seller has submitted under the same product identifier. Amazon is getting very strict re: counterfeit and knockoff products, as the…

> if you know that the third-party seller has done this Is there an easy way to determine this?

/u/dalfonso suggests checking for a sticker that starts with X covering the package's original barcode [0], but that only works after you receive the item. I don't think there's any way to tell before you buy, other than asking the vendor or other customers.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13927309

Re: Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

#297
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is terrible. The infuriating thing is if Amazon actually does anything, the scammers still get off with no penalty other than having their seller and Createspace accounts suspended. If you don't mind me asking, is there a POD block printed on the bottom of the last blank page? Typically it's a barcode and something like "Printed in USA, Lexington KY" and the date. Also on the Twitter thread someone mentioned tha…

I haven't seen these counterfeits. I've only seen the photos. The first counterfeit looked like it was printed from our PDF but it's hard to tell. There's a bar code on the back but not the POD code you're referring to. But we know the first one was printed and sold by them. About 1200 copies.

If there is no POD code on the last blank page, it might not be Createspace, because they (as well as other US providers such as IngramSpark and Lightning Source) have to include it.

It's possible it's someone doing digital short run and then selling it as a third party seller. If the price is low enoughI think that helps them get the buy box.

Re: Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been running into his problem personally. About 25% of our business now is done via Amazon. We sell to Amazon retail directly and also use Amazon FBA internationally. The problem is that "other sellers" keep beating us to the buy box for certain SKUs. Amazon keeps asking us to sell to them for a lower price. The funny thing is, Amazon already gets the lowest price, by far, compared to all other distributors. I k…

I run a few Amazon stores with about 10,000 SKUs -- don't re-SKU, what you want to do is brand gating... IF you are the brand owner and/or manufacturer. I can give you a few tips if you just need some advice. I'm guessing you don't have a vendorcentral account manager, but if you do, they can VERY effectively start banhammering the 3P knockoff companies. Also, check out sellercentral forums for a community of folks t…

Currently using Vendor Express for retail. Not sure we are big enough to get a vendor central AM.

Re: Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been running into his problem personally. About 25% of our business now is done via Amazon. We sell to Amazon retail directly and also use Amazon FBA internationally. The problem is that "other sellers" keep beating us to the buy box for certain SKUs. Amazon keeps asking us to sell to them for a lower price. The funny thing is, Amazon already gets the lowest price, by far, compared to all other distributors. I k…

Consider the possibility that your factory is manufacturing your product for their own account. This is a common problem where I live. Unauthorized, nighttime manufacturing runs are often the source of these problems.

Not happening in our case. We are much smaller than people realize in that respect.

Re: Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And ideally, actually, I'd like Amazon to offer a feature that essentially "bans" third parties from listing a SKU at the manufacturers request. I'd gladly pay to few thousand a year to ensure that the only one that can sell our products is Amazon themselves. Isn't this what owning a trademark is for? Can people advertise that they have M&M's for sale without the permission of Mars Candy Inc?

In the OP case copyright laws are sufficient. So yeah is it to much to ask from amazon to respect trademark and/or copyright. Specially considering they are the dominant online book sellers. I think people should start considering that when the DOJ hitted hard on Apple last year as they proposed an altenative to the near monopoly of Amazon maybe they hit the wrong target.

No. Neither copyright nor trademark prevents someone else from selling or listing your stuff. It does prevent people from making knock offs, but you have to PROVE that.

It's a massive burden to hunt these people down. You have to buy product from them and inspect it. They often hide behind a series of LLCs. You have to work with the site listing it to get it taken down and prove you are the manufacturer. It becomes a full time job very quickly.

Rode, the microphone company, has taken an approach I like which is that they don't sell on Amazon FBA at all. Even still, they have problems. I'd like to get big enough that we can just eliminate Amazon and go direct, but we aren't there yet.

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