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SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund [pdf]

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Re: SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund [pdf]

#291
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

function generateBitcoinSkepticism(oldPrice, newPrice) { if (oldPrice > newPrice) { return "It was a bubble all along."; } else if (oldPrice

generateBitcoinNewsReaction(); generateBitcoinSkepticism(); generateButteryPopcorn();

Lots of frontend devs here on HN huh.

Re: SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund [pdf]

#292
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not reasonable in the sense that the SEC should respond to the level of trader interest in BTC with something other than "don't trade it". The SEC has a three pronged mission: - Protect investors - Maintain fair, orderly, and efficiently markets - Facilitate capital formation With this decision they missed on all three. No investor was protected. The BTC market today was not fair, orderly, or efficient. There wa…

How was their capital destruction? People can buy in at a lower price. It's a zero sum game.

Traders using leverage means it's not a zero sum game.

Re: SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund [pdf]

#293
post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally speaking, it's a bad idea to use currency as a store of value. The unwavering stability of the almighty US Dollar is a massive historical outlier. For most of history the wealthy didn't keep Scrooge McDuckian piles of cash around, they converted their cash into hard goods and investments like loans, which won't evaporate if hyperinflation occurs. Even today, the smart thing to do is to store most of your va…

Except it's not stable at all. If you hold USD long term, because of the inflation target of the FED, you'll be able to buy less and less. USD lost a massive amount of value in the previous century alone, despite the massive advances in every field of human activity. https://www.measuringworth.com/uscompare/relativevalue.php

Yes it is stable, inflation is a small steady largely predictable thing, that's what stability is, predictability. By contrast, Bitcoin is highly unstable, no one has any idea what it's value will be in a week, let alone 30 years down the road, but due to the dollars stability you'll have no problem finding 30 years loans denominated in USD. The USD is the very definition of a stable currency. Stable doesn't mean never losing value, it means being predictable enough to plan for the future.

Re: SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund [pdf]

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

gold is a share of a conversion of energy to dug up earth, and sometimes nasty mercury tailings.

Gold actually has practical applications. Just go to wikipedia and find out what part of the CPU of the computer you are using to write your comment upon is made of.

The price of gold doesn't come from it's practical applications, so that's hardly relevant. If gold were no longer hoarded by speculators as a store of value, its price would plummet massively as the practical application demands simply couldn't maintain its current speculative value.

Bitcoin has practical applications as well, on the Internet as peer to peer cash. But like gold, it's value comes largely from speculators, not its practical applications.

Re: SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund [pdf]

#295

What is the best real-time source for Bitcoin's value?

http://bitcointicker.co

Thanks for recommending the site.

You can also use telnet to watch the price via:

  telnet ticker.bitcointicker.co 10080

Re: SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund [pdf]

#296
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Bitcoin just went from a high of 1327.1926 to 995.9575 in the blink of an eye. That is a loss of 25% of its value. This announcement does nothing to hurt the utility of Bitcoin or its application as a medium of exchange. That drop certainly seems like a speculative investment bubble popping.

Yup. Any "currency" that can plummet in value by 25% because of a minor SEC ruling is not ready to be a store of value.

995 is the lowest price it was sold for, not the bottom of averaged price. If you look at graphs now, you'll see that price is considered not having been under ~ 1050.

Those kind of statistical anomalies happen all the time, you must be aware of them if you look at real time chart. The bottom line is that you can't really know what the price is before a 30min period ends.

That being say, I expect the price to go down further after a bounce (disclaimer : I'm not a financial adviser, this is an opinion). Bitcoin was already at its all time high, and then there was the rumor of ETF, promising it will go even higher and will reach the moon. That's a big red flag to me. What seems the most plausible to me is that it will now enter a downtrend until it finds its support, then only start a new uptrend. I may be wrong, but at least I won't loose money.

I totally agree we can't use btc as a currency, though. I have a prepaid visa card that I can load with btc, but I only use it very rarely because it's annoying to have to look at chart to know when is the good time to load my card for this week's grocery. Things are settled, now, bitcoin is a speculative asset. It would be more interesting if cryptocurrencies like tether, which provide USDTether and EURTether, crypto currencies always indexed against their fiat counterpart, were finally available at scale.

Re: SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund [pdf]

#297
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's stopping him from doing a similar thing by selling deep OOTM options off of money he borrows on his margin account at any other broker?

Deep out of the money options have optionality whereas BitMex contracts are delta 1 products. They have literally nothing in common. The relevant difference in this case is that the option caps your upside.

My point is that risky financial plays are still possible even in the SEC regulated market. Maybe I misunderstood the parent poster though.

Re: SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund [pdf]

#298
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buy coins, create positive news & watch the price go up, sell coins at the new high. Sell coins, create negative news & watch the price go down, buy coins at the new low. Same as what unscrupulous people have been doing since the beginning of commerce.

Back when bitcoin was pennies, I bought BTC and then listed a bunch of nonexistent desirable drugs shipping from a convenient location for sale on the silk road, then dumped the BTC a few cents higher, without ever taking an order. I only made a few bucks, but I was curious if it were possible then to move such a tiny market. It was.

i'll send you some doge coin for those drugs

Re: SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund [pdf]

#299

This is a pretty big blow. The ETF has been the talk of the town for the last four years, and it is not unreasonable to think that it has been holding the hand under the price, since to a lot of people it represented the coveted inflow of institutional investment into bitcoin. With this gone, the immediate outlook for bitcoin is bleak. There is little market adoption to speak of, in fact bitcoin is probably losing ma…

I like how what your wrote is just about market share to other cryptocurrencies.

The transaction backlog is so high because people are using bitcoin more than ever, alot of times to get to those other cryptos

Re: SEC Rejects Rule Change for Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Fund [pdf]

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy. If your product practical application was actually more important than it's speculation aspect then price manipulation would be greatly reduced. As bitcoin exists right now that's not the case of course. Bitcoin is now a mostly speculative asset since the amount of transactions you can do is extremely small compared to the market value of bitcoin at the moment.

This is somewhat false. It is true that Bitcoin can currently support about 7 txps. However, this isn't the whole picture. 1) A much better number to use is 4,500/10 minutes, because if the transactions aren't used in a prior second, they can still be used in the next. 2) One-way ratcheting timelocked channels (these payment channels work kind of like a giftcard) are ridiculously easy to implement -- basically just u…

I understood "amount of transactions" as a reference to acceptance by, for example, vendors – not the technical limits.
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