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SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

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Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#291

Post by abecedarius »

dwringer wrote: post #28
suprgeek wrote: post #15

While this feat depends on hitting a lot of intermediate milestones - Falcon Heavy Test, Crew Dragon Unmanned to ISS, Crew Dragon manned to ISS, etc, there is no "show-stopper" that is apparent right now. I like how they have avoided committing to the much harder "landing on the Moon and then return" scenario.

We choose to not go to the moon, but do the other things, not because they are hard, but because they are relatively easy, and we can make a quick buck.

The Apollo program also started with around-the-moon missions before the landing missions.

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#292

Post by skookumchuck »

coryfklein wrote: post #114
jfoutz wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the exhaust just water?!?

Is it? I know very little about rocket fuel, but I always assumed that CO2 is involved. A short bit of Googling "composition of rocket fuel exhaust" wasn't immediately helpful. :/

Just look at the composition of the rocket fuel, and add oxygen to that. It the fuel has lots of carbon atoms in it, CO2 will be the result in the same proportion.

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#293

Post by TeMPOraL »

Gravityloss wrote: post #233

I find this schedule very very unlikely. No humans have flown in the Dragon at all yet. Also none on any of SpaceX:s rockets. There have been lots of launch and pad failures. I'm cheering for SpaceX for doing more towards spacefaring, but I'm very skeptical and think this will, at least, end up being negative PR to them, and, at worst, a lot more.

They had failures, but they're going forward. They launched again recently, and nailed the landing, again.

That said, I suppose we need to apply Elon Time coefficient here, and the Moon mission will end up being in 2019 / 2020. Still, I'm very excited, because for the first time in my life, the possibility of humans going to the Moon again within my lifetime feels actually real.

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#294

Post by ChuckMcM »

skookumchuck wrote: post #286
ChuckMcM wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this (mating tanks given multiple missions) is what they were considering. Imagine you have your reusable falcon 9 boost into orbit a 'fuel only' second stage. Land the first stage, put another one on it, and send it up again. Once you have your 'boost pack' up in orbit, presumably docking with each other into a single unit, you launch your crew which attaches to the 'tug' that takes them to the moon. ULA h…

Jet fighters routinely use so much fuel taking off that the first thing they do after gaining altitude is refuel. Rockets can use the same idea.

Yes but as the ULA whitepaper pointed out there are some challenges to doing so in orbit. For one, the lack of gravity makes it hard to pump fuel. You can spin the tanker to achieve fuel settling but now you are both spinning bodies. Then there is handling cryogenic propellants in space, you get nominal bleed off from warming and again ULA had a really interesting design of an internal combustion engine using the bleed off of Hydrogen and Oxygen as a chiller pump. But suffice it to say, its not as easy as it is flying a jet behind a slow re-purposed jetliner, and doing that is already difficult.

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#295

Post by TeMPOraL »

clebio wrote: post #223

> ... two private citizens ... have already paid a significant deposit to do a moon mission. Like the Apollo astronauts before them, these individuals will travel into space carrying the hopes and dreams of all humankind ... Except that these two private citizens are presumably absurdly wealthy. Whereas the nationalize space program which brought forth the Apollo mission gave all private citizens, as well as schoolch…

Sure, but right now no country actually has a deep-space human mission program. So SpaceX doing what they do is actually pretty exciting for everyone - especially that the express intent of Elon is to significantly drop down the costs of getting to space. If they can succeed in that then who knows, maybe our children will have an actual chance of leaving this planet, even if for a short while.

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#296

Post by strmpnk »

skookumchuck wrote: post #286
ChuckMcM wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this (mating tanks given multiple missions) is what they were considering. Imagine you have your reusable falcon 9 boost into orbit a 'fuel only' second stage. Land the first stage, put another one on it, and send it up again. Once you have your 'boost pack' up in orbit, presumably docking with each other into a single unit, you launch your crew which attaches to the 'tug' that takes them to the moon. ULA h…

Jet fighters routinely use so much fuel taking off that the first thing they do after gaining altitude is refuel. Rockets can use the same idea.

This is partly because they don't always take off with full tanks which allows for shorter runways and/or safer takeoff. Depending on the ordinance that a jet may have to carry, it starts making more sense to stay a bit lighter until a minimum airspeed is achieved.

The idea of docking modular components in space is a good one though. Perhaps all you really need to do is lift a bunch of fuel tanks since there is plenty of time to perform burns with smaller boosters on longer distance trips.

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#297

Post by misnome »

Gravityloss wrote: post #233

I find this schedule very very unlikely. No humans have flown in the Dragon at all yet. Also none on any of SpaceX:s rockets. There have been lots of launch and pad failures. I'm cheering for SpaceX for doing more towards spacefaring, but I'm very skeptical and think this will, at least, end up being negative PR to them, and, at worst, a lot more.

I'm glad to see somebody questioning the timescale. There is definitely a huge blind spot around Musk around here.

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#298

Post by TeMPOraL »

maxerickson wrote: post #272
lettergram wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rockets (or any research) > bombs any day of the week. Yes, my tax dollars going towards research (even indirectly) is better than the way most of my money is spent

Historically rocket research has been funded to develop the capability to deliver bombs.

Which seems to imply that military spending is pretty beneficial for humanity as long as it's spent on researching new cool ways of killing each other, and not on actually using them.

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#299

Post by elastic_church »

dwringer wrote: post #28
suprgeek wrote: post #15

While this feat depends on hitting a lot of intermediate milestones - Falcon Heavy Test, Crew Dragon Unmanned to ISS, Crew Dragon manned to ISS, etc, there is no "show-stopper" that is apparent right now. I like how they have avoided committing to the much harder "landing on the Moon and then return" scenario.

We choose to not go to the moon, but do the other things, not because they are hard, but because they are relatively easy, and we can make a quick buck.

lol love it

JFKa-ching!

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#300

Post by vibrolax »

achamayou wrote: post #70
suprgeek wrote: post #15

While this feat depends on hitting a lot of intermediate milestones - Falcon Heavy Test, Crew Dragon Unmanned to ISS, Crew Dragon manned to ISS, etc, there is no "show-stopper" that is apparent right now. I like how they have avoided committing to the much harder "landing on the Moon and then return" scenario.

Well, they haven't got a lander for one thing. The Apollo LM had its design finalised in '63, and only flew in '65. SpaceX would surely do it quicker now, with the benefit of experience, but from scratch to operations in a year for such a unique vehicle is quite unrealistic.

The Apollo LM first flew in earth orbit on the Apollo 9 mission in March 1969. Its first test flight was only 4 months before the Apollo 11 mission landed one on the moon! And the first all-up Saturn V flew unmanned in November 1967. The incentives and funding were there very rapid development.
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