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The Problem with AMP

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Re: The Problem with AMP

#291

Post by apeace »

Google deserves more credit than it's being given here.

I think AMP is Google's next SPDY. As you know, SPDY eventually became HTTP/2 through an open standardization process, and Google has since deprecated SPDY in favor of the open HTTP/2 standard.

AMP is similarly open. While it is still Google-driven at this stage, other companies are already iterating on it and implementing their own AMP caches[0]. There's no reason to believe Google is attempting to "lock-in" users to Google (and this article provides no evidence of that).

Every major tech company is trying to keep up with the demands of users. They demand content that loads really fast. People in many parts of the world have poor access to mobile data, which increases the importance of this even further.

As mentioned in this article, both Apple and Facebook are also working on similar projects. At least you can send a pull request to Google's.

Is Google using its influence to push the web in a different direction? Yes. Is it a bad thing? I don't think so, but others may disagree. The issue is that this article provides no argument that AMP is a bad thing, but rather a conspiracy theory that it is Google's attempt at "lock-in".

I agree that requiring an external Javascript to be loaded is a privacy issue, and that should be fixed. How about contributing a solution?

If not AMP or something along the same lines, how do we the tech community solve the problem of delivering static articles lightning-fast?

[0] https://www.cloudflare.com/website-optimization/accelerated-...

Re: The Problem with AMP

#292

Post by macandcheese »

saurik wrote: post #237
NTripleOne wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A poorly made responsive layout* If it was any good, it would be showing the desktop scaling/layout/whatever instead of the mobile when 'show desktop version' is on. It's also not always about being on a responsive sites, a lot of places still do a m.website.com redirect when visiting the main site from a mobile device, but with no backwards redirect when visiting the mobile site (which is almost certainly non-respon…

The website has no way of knowing you did that: this is actually Apple's fault for not changing the logical browser dimensions when you use this feature.

Well, no, it's not - it's just weirdly labeled.

Request mobile site is really only applicable to the small amount of websites that serve a m.domain.com.

Now, they could have an option to "request desktop SIZE" that would result in sites that are responsively built rendering in "desktop size" mode.

Re: The Problem with AMP

#293

Post by macandcheese »

ejcx wrote: post #29

One thing I love about AMP, that seems to never be mentioned when people discuss it, is viewing AMP-HTML pages on my laptop. I wrote a small chrome extension that always forwards my page to the equivalent AMP page (if one exists) and the experience of reading the news is so much better. AMP pages off mobile are really really amazing. Compare Non-AMP[0] vs AMP[1] [0] http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Trump-on-the-…

It's about 100x harder to read the second link you posted because it fills the entire screen. Full-width text has been proven so many times to hamper readability...

Even with ads the original is an easier read on desktop....

Re: The Problem with AMP

#294

Post by freehunter »

usernam wrote: post #270
greenspot wrote: post #162

Google is abusing its powers. The search rank is our currency and Google has pushed AMP sites to the top for some while. So, everybody is now building weird AMP layers for their sites. We went from a free to a proprietary mobile web in just a few weeks. And we can't do anything. It feels like the times when the Internet Explorer tried to rule except that more people were complaining. The open solution to a faster mob…

> The open solution to a faster mobile web would have been so easy: Just penalize large and slow web pages without defining a dedicated mobile specification It's obvious they have a different view on this. You can see this first-hand on their pagespeed tool. Pagespeed ranks your pages mostly according to random features, irregardless of size and performance. Actual test you can perform: 1kb web page with no compressi…

>You can taste that this has spread into google monoculture by the performance of their own web services.

I gave up on Google Maps a long time ago. On my desktop or laptop, it loads in chunks. Like, the map loads, then the search bar loads, then the navigation (zoom tools, etc) loads. When I click and drag, many times I end up selecting the page instead of moving the map because it hasn't finished loading. I use Bing Maps on desktop and Apple Maps on mobile, only using Google Maps when I need to verify an address is the right place or find a company's hours, since their data is better than their competitors.

But man their performance is worse. Way worse.

Re: The Problem with AMP

#295

Post by freehunter »

driverdan wrote: post #240
mike-cardwell wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If "you" use Chrome, then Amp is your fault. You gave an advertising company control of the Web.

AMP and Chrome are two completely independent things.

Controlled by the same company to further the same goal.

Re: The Problem with AMP

#296

Post by AstralStorm »

mike-cardwell wrote: post #231
greenspot wrote: post #162

Google is abusing its powers. The search rank is our currency and Google has pushed AMP sites to the top for some while. So, everybody is now building weird AMP layers for their sites. We went from a free to a proprietary mobile web in just a few weeks. And we can't do anything. It feels like the times when the Internet Explorer tried to rule except that more people were complaining. The open solution to a faster mob…

If "you" use Chrome, then Amp is your fault. You gave an advertising company control of the Web.

More like "if you use Google". Sadly, nobody has built just as good alternative search engine. Or as nice webmail.

Generally, Google has huge resources to spend at making their search and their advertising platform outperform others, and they haven't degenerated enough to allow a swift moving company to disrupt their market.

Re: The Problem with AMP

#297

Post by freehunter »

ksk wrote: post #288
wheelerwj wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google is abusing its powers. They are a business, doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing. It's up to us to find a way to kill google and take back our internet. Edit, i love the downvotes for this. Google is legally required to act in their shareholders best interests. You all should understand fiduciary duty. They are building long term value for a massive (and growing) customer segment at the expense o…

>Its morally reprehensible but still the correct decision in today's business climate. Using your logic if slavery were to become legal again, businesses should rush to use the free labor because "fiduciary duty". This is why they teach business ethics.

Why do you think companies rush to use H1B visas and offshore to countries that use (what amounts to) slave labor?

Yes, companies do this today. Business ethics counts for nothing if it's not mandated. Compare Walmart's revenue to Whole Foods and you'll see why.

Re: The Problem with AMP

#298

Post by AstralStorm »

colordrops wrote: post #282
wheelerwj wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google is abusing its powers. They are a business, doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing. It's up to us to find a way to kill google and take back our internet. Edit, i love the downvotes for this. Google is legally required to act in their shareholders best interests. You all should understand fiduciary duty. They are building long term value for a massive (and growing) customer segment at the expense o…

> required to act in their shareholders best interests This is an extremely vague requirement. Potentially killing their brand name among developers and potentially initiating a slow long decline into irrelevancy certainly counts as not acting in their shareholders' best interests. When google first started, their "don't be evil" mantra was one of the main reasons they succeeded, so not doing unethical shit is in the…

No, making more money is, and shareholders tend to think in short term gains.

Re: The Problem with AMP

#299

Post by AstralStorm »

27182818284 wrote: post #260
wheelerwj wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google is abusing its powers. They are a business, doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing. It's up to us to find a way to kill google and take back our internet. Edit, i love the downvotes for this. Google is legally required to act in their shareholders best interests. You all should understand fiduciary duty. They are building long term value for a massive (and growing) customer segment at the expense o…

Fiduciary duty it isn't a magic spell that shareholders cast and then the company does everything all the time to squeeze profit out of everything. Lots of Google services are still free (as in price)

No, they are adware. Or "get monitored and profiled".

Re: The Problem with AMP

#300

Post by nebabyte »

usernam wrote: post #270
greenspot wrote: post #162

Google is abusing its powers. The search rank is our currency and Google has pushed AMP sites to the top for some while. So, everybody is now building weird AMP layers for their sites. We went from a free to a proprietary mobile web in just a few weeks. And we can't do anything. It feels like the times when the Internet Explorer tried to rule except that more people were complaining. The open solution to a faster mob…

> The open solution to a faster mobile web would have been so easy: Just penalize large and slow web pages without defining a dedicated mobile specification It's obvious they have a different view on this. You can see this first-hand on their pagespeed tool. Pagespeed ranks your pages mostly according to random features, irregardless of size and performance. Actual test you can perform: 1kb web page with no compressi…

regardless
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