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No tipping means better business

tastefulventures.com

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Re: No tipping means better business

#291

Post by greedo »

Amezarak wrote: post #225
okonomiyaki3000 wrote: post #75

Having lived in Japan for a long time, I kind of dread visiting America because of the whole nonsense of tipping (and lot of other reasons, really). There's simply no concept of it here and yet the service is excellent. I don't know what the typical wage is but I know people who work in service jobs and seem to have a lot more disposable income than their counterparts in the US. I also know people who work as servers…

I used to wait tables. They hate the idea of ending tipping because servers almost without exception make much, much more than any of the kitchen staff. Eliminating ripping and raising the base wage would almost always be a pay cut. I worked at a buffet, not anything fancy, and it was easy to make $20/hr. No employer was going to pay that for the work I did.

Not only does the employer NOT want to pay that much to their employees, tipping encourages waitstaff to turn tables faster, increasing both the restaurant's bottom line, and the number of tips.

Re: No tipping means better business

#292

Post by vostok »

nommm-nommm wrote: post #279
vostok wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, because unlike a bonus, tips make up a significant portion of waitstaff's regular income. Bonus makes up a significant portion of my regular income. I'm sure that's true for many other HN readers. > It's a completely different situation than bonuses on top of a salary that already covers living expense. In many cases, salary does not cover living expenses. In some instances bonuses can be 10x annual salary or m…

Is the bonus agreed upon before starting work or do you just work for pennies with the hope your employer is feeling generous at the end of the year?

It depends on what you were able to negotiate. You might have a guaranteed bonus in your first year, but you might rely on your employer's generosity in future years. In some cases, the bonuses may be based on certain targets, but those targets can become impossible to meet if your employer changes certain aspects of your situation.

Even in the very unlikely event that you have an airtight contract, there are instances where the employer simply will not pay you. Legal action might be the only recourse in this situation. Sometimes you are required to go through arbitration and sometimes you have to sue.

Re: No tipping means better business

#293

Post by kzrdude »

turndown wrote: post #123
okonomiyaki3000 wrote: post #75

Having lived in Japan for a long time, I kind of dread visiting America because of the whole nonsense of tipping (and lot of other reasons, really). There's simply no concept of it here and yet the service is excellent. I don't know what the typical wage is but I know people who work in service jobs and seem to have a lot more disposable income than their counterparts in the US. I also know people who work as servers…

I've worked as both a server and a delivery driver, and even after having left both jobs I'd still be in favor of tipping because I think it incentivizes the worker to do well at their job. The US simply doesn't have the same culture Japan has. That said, travelling to the US shouldn't be handicapped by a fear of tipping. Don't tip, or do, but not going because of it is an unfortunate choice.

Yes, it's not the same culture.

The USA is very much about what's in it for me? One has to be paid extra, explicitly (apparently), to do one's job well, paid to give good service, paid to be nice (?).

Is it necessary to have a direct tip for doing those things? In a different culture, those are things your salary pays for.

Re: No tipping means better business

#295

Post by Spooky23 »

vkjv wrote: post #261
radmuzom wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it very funny when people argue that increasing the minimum wage would increase costs for consumers (I don't necessarily disagree; in some cases it would, whether that is a bad thing is a different matter). I personally would pay a higher price, no tips and ensure that the workers serving can meet their basic needs via wages alone.

Just an FYI, but if a tipped employee does not meet the minimum wage, the employer must make up the difference. https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm

That rarely gets enforced. Employers don't want to pay, employees want to enhance their wages by not paying taxes.

Re: No tipping means better business

#296

Post by fowlerpower »

Having worked in the restaurant industry for over 12 years, started as a bus boy at 15 years old, then waiter, then bartender and finally moved to General Manager of the whole place. I can tell you that tipping is absolutely necessary.

I can say that the article is dead wrong about this. Tipping is the best thing that's ever happened to the US Restourant business. Especially at great establishments with repeat customers.

Here are a few reasons:

1) As an owner of a place there is only one of you, impossible for you to cook and go greet the guests and do everything to make them feel special. Your staff, the waiters the bus boys will feel like owners through tipping. If they do a shitty job they don't get paid, it doesn't get more capitalistic than that. It's the the same thing that motivates employees of startups that have equity.

2) For customers Tipping is not required if they do a shit job you don't have to tip 20%. Leave 10% or less, that's the whole point. You as a consumer have the power. Not the owner or the staff.

3) The math is a bit annoying but most places will put the math in your receipt.

4) The best establishments with repeat customers benefit from tipping the most. The waiters and staff have to treat your guests very well and it is in their best interest to keep high paying, high tipping customers happy and coming back. The waiters will complain and fight with the chef when they do a bad job that's how much they care about things going well. Their livelihood is at steak.

5) Now compare waiters in good establishments that get good tips to folks working at McDonalds. There is no comparison, the waiters are motivated the McDonalds worker gets paid no matter what and makes no tip. No extra effort necessary. For that matter compare them to any worker hat dosent make a tip and doesn't have to hustle.

Anyway, I am a bit too passionate about this but the author is very wrong on this one.

Tipping creates a common goal among the owner and all the staff it is crazy to ever think of getting rid of something that makes your employees work harder and better and is a carrot and a stick that gives the consumer all the power.

Re: No tipping means better business

#297

Post by petre »

I'd rather tip than get a bill with service tax included, which is itself taxed by the state authorities. If the service is crap, my tip is going to be zero. What sucks is restaurants that share the tip between employees, which means unmotivated employees get the same amount as the motivated ones. It's also a cultural thing - in Southern Europe there's a strong tipping culture. In Hungary you get a service tax on the bill instead. In Austria they will thank you and look extremely grateful for a tip of even one cent. Optional is good. No tip is fine as well. But don't tell me what to do and especially do not regulate tipping.

Re: No tipping means better business

#298

Post by nommm-nommm »

maccard wrote: post #218
bluedino wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I also don't want to waste my precious time on paying the tip for calculating tax. 20% is an easy calculation. Move the decimal point over one, and double. $24.30 becomes $2.43, doubled you get $4.86 which is your tip. Round it up to $5 if you want. Did you really enjoy the service? Add another $2 or $3. Terrible waiter? Subtract $2 or $3.

> Terrible waiter? Subtract $2 or $3. Really? Surely if they're a terrible waiter/terrible service, you shouldn't leave any tip.

In most cases the service you get is merely a function of how well managed the place is that's it. I believe that it's somewhat unfair to withhold an employee's salary because their management is dysfunctional. Even if they were downright lazy they still work somewhere where they are allowed to be downright lazy.

I say this as someone who has worked for both very dysfunctional management as well as very functional, process oriented management. The difference between how well customers were served was like night and day. Some issues that contributed to the dysfunction was lack of training and lack of feedback.

Also, in many places tips are pooled, every single person I know who was a tipped employee was part of a tip pool, so you probably taking away salary from an amazing server in the process. Sometimes back of the house is tipped out a small percentage as well.

Restaurant service is, above all, a team effort, so basically tipping is super unfair no matter how you slice it.

Re: No tipping means better business

#299

Post by greedo »

kasey_junk wrote: post #156
mcv wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are bizarre laws. I'm not sure if Netherland has any laws on tipping and sharing them, but I think some places share their tips with the entire staff. If you can tip the waiter for excellent service, then you should also be able to tip the kitchen staff if the food is particularly excellent.

The labor laws in the USA are extremely bizarre. Wait staff have a different, much lower, minimum wage than other workers. The restaurant is required to pay them the regular minimum wage if their tips do not make up the difference, and this is a source of many labor complaints. For most wait staff this is not an issue. Their tips put them well above minimum wage status, but that is one of the big drivers of the tippi…

The restaurant I worked in during the 80's pooled tips, and both the chef and the line/prep cooks shared in the pool. I think even the lowly dishwasher was included, though we all gave him part of our own tips before putting them in the pool.

Re: No tipping means better business

#300

Post by Spooky23 »

niij wrote: post #275
vostok wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, because unlike a bonus, tips make up a significant portion of waitstaff's regular income. Bonus makes up a significant portion of my regular income. I'm sure that's true for many other HN readers. > It's a completely different situation than bonuses on top of a salary that already covers living expense. In many cases, salary does not cover living expenses. In some instances bonuses can be 10x annual salary or m…

What employers are paying 3x and 10x salary in BONUSES? That's ludicrous. Also, if you're still working there and looking for fresh CS grad (Scala and Linux admin experience), my email is in my profile ;)

Financial services.

New York State's budget situation is good or bad based on how good or bad bonuses are -- we're talking billions of dollars.

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