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U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

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Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#291

Post by grzm »

cpursley wrote: post #290
verbify wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are still people in the US without access to clean water. In some parts of the country, primary and secondary school education is abysmal. As far as I'm concerned, it's a question of priorities. Sure, I love the humanities, but the government only has so many tax dollars, and studying Shakespeare in university is not a priority.

> There are still people in the US without access to clean water. [citation needed]

Here are two, the first having been reported on this past summer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014/08/12/even-in-the-u...

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#292

Post by cpursley »

nightski wrote: post #154
wojcech wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sentiment is so bizarre from a European perspective. So the only thing that stops people from getting an education willy nilly is student debt? Or American engineers are all better in some respects than German engineers because of their debt?

I never really said any of that. The reality is that you can get a really good college education for rather cheap in the U.S. if you are smart about it. I could of gone to a local state college for 1/10th the tuition of a private school and received an education at a very similar level. I just feel that a free for all education system (ala Bernie Sanders) would be detrimental. Having things be somewhat exclusive and…

I'm really not sure why you're getting downvotes. If I could go back and change my education path, I'd absolutely go the community college route for two years then complete my education at state college.

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#293

Post by awinder »

koolba wrote: post #285
awinder wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also the mode of operation for ages 5-18, with a nation wide avg of 12K / year in spending per student. So that 160k-ish in spending is downright American, but spending 1/4-1/2 of it on college is a give-away, socialism, the very demise of lady liberty

Why stop there? Why not have it be open to everyone, forever, at any point of their life? Why should anyone have to work at all?

The scope of someone going to college for say 40 years (from 20-60, for sake of argument) is a lot different than saying 4 years of education should maybe be an institutionalized cost. If you figure:

1. At 12K/year, base education runs a cost of 156K 2. At 20K/year, college education for 4 years runs 80K 3. At 20K/year, college education for 40 years runs 800K

Then what we're saying is 80K represents 50% of the educational costs we're all comfortable with sinking into base education. But letting someone never work and just go to college for free for 40 years would cost over 400% of the base educational costs. That seems like a totally different scale of issue to me. We're also probably hitting diminishing returns over what 4 years would prepare someone for, and I don't think the audience is that large. Most people want to go to college to get skills to then contribute something to society, whether or not today's economy specifically values what they want to contribute.

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#294

Post by enraged_camel »

cpursley wrote: post #290
verbify wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are still people in the US without access to clean water. In some parts of the country, primary and secondary school education is abysmal. As far as I'm concerned, it's a question of priorities. Sure, I love the humanities, but the government only has so many tax dollars, and studying Shakespeare in university is not a priority.

> There are still people in the US without access to clean water. [citation needed]

Have you been living under a rock or something?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#295

Post by jonlucc »

chronic6l wrote: post #213
laughfactory wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right on the money. In fact, I'd argue that almost no one is smart enough (or wise enough) to only borrow what they really need. I went to college when I was 30. I thought I was smart. I knew that new graduates typically make, maybe, $40K. Yet, I signed up for the full boat...taking every last cent they'd loan me. Consequently, my wife and I are now $250K in debt--and have just bachelor's degrees (plus incompl…

> Basically, I've come to the conclusion that college is not for all. Of course college is not for all. It is not something everyone just "does" because of "jobs". High schoolers and college students feel entitled. The vast majority should not be in college nor do they need a college education. If you are an 18-20 year old and cannot see this, then you sure as hell should not be in college. Intellectual exploration?…

One problem, though, is that many students whose loans are becoming problematic were in school during the financial trouble leading up to 2008 and 2009. During that recession, people without degrees had negative growth in jobs (job loss), while college degree-holders dropped nearly to zero, but did not actually go negative. Associate degree-holders were almost half-way between other the two. Of course, it's great to tell students that they should strongly consider the trades or other paths, but the reality is that those careers are less safe in economic downturns.

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#296

Post by lkbm »

ap22213 wrote: post #263
Lazare wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a very nice world to live in. It also doesn't sound much like our world. It's certainly not how any country on Earth operates. One day, I hope and imagine, we will live in a post-scarcity world, and then yes, that sounds like a great plan for organizing society. > rather than a laser focus on the hand-to-mouth of Jobs Right Now. Perhaps we should wait to relax that focus once we've actually solved th…

It is extremely unlikely that a post-scarcity world will ever occur without, say, a collective global work project. There is no financial incentive for private capital to initiate it. Just like the Internet (in its current form) would have never occurred without government funding. The technology to bring about a post-scarcity world mostly exists, and we could get there very quickly (maybe 5-10 years). But, how do yo…

This seems more optimistic than I usually hear. Do you mind going into what you mean by "post-scarcity" and how we'd achieve it? Does it just mean a living UBI, or is there tech/infrastructure (extensive solar, e.g.) to be developed/built out as well?

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#297

Post by koolba »

awinder wrote: post #293
koolba wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why stop there? Why not have it be open to everyone, forever, at any point of their life? Why should anyone have to work at all?

The scope of someone going to college for say 40 years (from 20-60, for sake of argument) is a lot different than saying 4 years of education should maybe be an institutionalized cost. If you figure: 1. At 12K/year, base education runs a cost of 156K 2. At 20K/year, college education for 4 years runs 80K 3. At 20K/year, college education for 40 years runs 800K Then what we're saying is 80K represents 50% of the educa…

> Then what we're saying is 80K represents 50% of the educational costs we're all comfortable with sinking into base education.

You're making assumptions that we're all comfortable with paying for 12 years of education. I think the majority of that is a waste of time (and by extension money).

> Most people want to go to college to get skills to then contribute something to society, whether or not today's economy specifically values what they want to contribute.

Sure but I don't want to pay for that either. If people didn't get hand outs that hide the true price of college (i.e. government backed loans), the price of college would come down drastically. It's artificially inflated to match amount of money a student can expect to beg / borrow.

If there was going to be any type of "college for all", the only approach I'd advocate would be free education that was provided by the government itself (i.e. community colleges). At least that would have a downward pressure on tuitions at private institutions that would suddenly have to price compete against it. Anything else will just increase the problem further.

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#298

Post by AlwaysRock »

I was lucky to get out without any debt due to athletic and other scholarships. However the last two-three girls I've dated had 15K-25K in student loans. They all said, "At least I dont have K like my friend..."

I cant believe do much is being lended to college students.

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#299

Post by enraged_camel »

hueving wrote: post #144
IslaDeEncanta wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is the typical lack of perspective I expect from HN. Going to college is extremely stressful. Going to college poor (actually poor) is nearly impossible.

>Going to college poor (actually poor) is nearly impossible. This is not true. If you are poor (actually poor), there are so many government grants and scholarships for low income students that it's much easier financially than if you are middle class. If you are middle class, your parents frequently have to give up half a year's salary to help pay. Good luck going to college if you're not a top tier student and your…

>>If you are poor (actually poor), there are so many government grants and scholarships for low income students that it's much easier financially than if you are middle class.

Availability doesn't automatically lead to discoverability or accessibility. Most grants require a ridiculous amount of paperwork and the ability to navigate a complex bureaucracy, which poor families have neither the time nor the skill for. A lot of the parents in poor families work multiple jobs. Some barely speak English.

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#300

Post by TallGuyShort »

chime wrote: post #61
School-Cotton wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true only the rich could send their kids to art school, but there are lots of things only the rich can do. What makes you define art school in particular as something we should pay for everyone to do, rather than a luxury? Keep in mind that resources are limited -- for a given level of taxation, everything the State spends money on means either cutting something else or increasing the debt (thereby making debt s…

> What makes you define art school in particular as something we should pay for everyone to do, rather than a luxury? We're not outright paying for it. We're taking a risk on it. If we create a society that supports art and culture, then these degrees will result in good paying careers. If we create a society where 9/10 art students end up as baristas, then we're losing a slice of humanity in addition to the unpayabl…

If 9 of the 10 art students end up as baristas, it might be because we're not creating a society that supports art and culture. But it might also be because colleges are accepting people who weren't paying attention to exponential functions in math class and can't make basic decisions like the true cost of a loan vs. risk, and then obviously struggle to thrive financially enough to pay it off. We're all worried about the art students, ignoring the fact that they clearly didn't take advantage of lower levels of education that were completely free.
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