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Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

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Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#291

Post by fucking_tragedy »

ikeboy wrote: post #104
fucking_tragedy wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can go by his stated intentions to help determine where in the realm of possibility his future actions might play out. Mass deportations and a retreat on civil rights and equality are within that realm.

I'm not saying there's no chance he'll do those things. I'm saying that it's not certain enough to obligate people to not cooperate with him. (Also, if the Holocaust had only consisted of mass deportations it wouldn't be nearly as bad or remembered. Have some perspective.)

> (Also, if the Holocaust had only consisted of mass deportations it wouldn't be nearly as bad or remembered. Have some perspective.)

We already tried this and have seen the results. We rounded up and deported more than a million Mexicans twice in our history. It is remembered, California apologized for their hand in it a couple of years ago.

Millions of families could be uprooted, torn apart and be left stranded without ID, possessions or money[1] and left to die[2]. Mothers, fathers, aunts, uncles, brothers, sisters, friends, neighbors, co-workers and classmates could disappear.

My perspective is that 'exactly as bad as the Holocaust' isn't the bar to pass to be a potential tragedy.

I didn't make a comparison to the Holocaust, but since we're there: deportation and mass ordered removal is part of what made the Holocaust a tragedy. It took years of deportations (of the traditional sense), forced relocations and imprisonment before people were shipped to the ovens in droves.

[1] http://immigrationimpact.com/2016/04/07/deported-immigrants-...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback#Consequences

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#292

Post by threeseed »

reflexive wrote: post #269
threeseed wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump I suspect will be very similar to George W Bush. From all accounts he simply doesn't have the intellectual stamina to handle the rigours of the job. And I don't mean that in a negative way he is just more of a hands on, energetic, get shit done sort of guy. So in order to survive he is going to delegate to people like Guilani, Christie, Gingrich, Carson etc. Some of the most shameless, self serving and unethica…

> From all accounts he simply doesn't have the intellectual stamina Can you elaborate on what accounts these are? The only estimate I've seen of his intelligence was based the school he graduated from.

Intellectual stamina != Intelligence.

I am referring to the fact that the Presidency has been described as far more an exercise in patience, absorbing information and careful deliberation than say running a typical business especially a dynamic one like Trump used to. He is by all accounts a very smart guy. But by all accounts he isn't a particularly patient one.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#293

Post by ArkyBeagle »

meritt wrote: post #21

This was obvious from the RNC speech and further reinforced when Thiel donated $1M to Trump. A contrarian bet, sure, but $1M is a pretty small price to pay to have a 50/50 shot at CTO of the USA. I'm sure he'll see a very significant ROI on his $1M once the government starts awarding contracts very conveniently to companies of which he owns a portion. I had very negative feelings about Thiel, and those were magnified…

I think it's impossible ( or soon will be ) to ignore that it tapped into a lot of energy, and I can't blame Thiele for placing a bet.

Trump "hacked" the electoral process. Whether he broke things remains to be seen. It's one thing chasing a bear, and quite another catching one.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#294

Post by paulsutter »

betolink wrote: post #240

People here giving Thiel a free pass on his views and support for bigotry is just disgusting.

Here's Peter's speech at the National Press Club:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob-LJqPQEJ4

Could you point out anywhere that Peter supports bigotry? Or even, a single crazy statement in Peter's speech? (I wouldn't defend Trump. I'm defending Peter, who I respect a lot).

The speech runs from 2:40 to 15:50, and can be watched in 7 minutes if you change speed to 2x.

(Thomas, I respect you a lot too. I've never seen or known Peter to do anything like you describe. I posted this video because it helped me understand his position on the election).

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#295

Post by BurningFrog »

RealGeek wrote: post #70
meritt wrote: post #21

This was obvious from the RNC speech and further reinforced when Thiel donated $1M to Trump. A contrarian bet, sure, but $1M is a pretty small price to pay to have a 50/50 shot at CTO of the USA. I'm sure he'll see a very significant ROI on his $1M once the government starts awarding contracts very conveniently to companies of which he owns a portion. I had very negative feelings about Thiel, and those were magnified…

> I'm sure he'll see a very significant ROI on his $1M once the government starts awarding contracts very conveniently to companies of which he owns a portion. Wasn't Trump rallying against such crony corruption aka 'pay for play'?

Just because some random internet commenter is sure this is part of a crony capitalist deal, doesn't mean that is an undisputed fact.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#296

Post by revelation »

grzm wrote: post #255
revelation wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in practice you might be Brendan Eich, donate to an anti same-sex marriage PAC, find that your work community does not feel gay marriage should be open to discussion and are out of a job as CEO of Mozilla.

Ok. Would you clarify who the "you" refers to? I'm not sure if you're referring to me, Peter Thiel, or some general person who doesn't hold the same views as you.

Well, Brendan Eich. It's more of a literary device. Sorry, I might have misunderstood your question?

I merely wanted to give an example of what happens when there is a shift of the line and some people haven't caught up.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#297

Post by ArkyBeagle »

gnarbarian wrote: post #282
kafkaesq wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to what others have said: His head-over-heels support for a decidedly anti-libertarian candidate like Trump is in itself quite extremist. This has always been one of the standard tools for (crypto-)fascists and closet authoritarians of all ilks to get into positions of influence -- by using people of nominally "opposing" viewpoints as, in effect, wedge instruments to disrupt the system as violently as pos…

You can't call trump an extremist when half the country voted for him.

This country was founded by extremists.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#298

Post by killedbydeath »

betolink wrote: post #240

People here giving Thiel a free pass on his views and support for bigotry is just disgusting.

Left-wing mccarthyism is as bad as right-wing mccarthyism. People should be able to support one of the two candidates without having to stand up to so much shaming in SV circles. Given the binary choice there may be multiple reasons to pick Trump over Clinton even if you disagree with him on a lot of issues.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#299

Post by edblarney »

threeseed wrote: post #260
edblarney wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Lots of individuals who Trump "owes" through either money or support they provided to him; pure cronyism." Trump is the most 'free' President in modern history. He 'owes' the least, to the fewest people. This is one thing even the center-left press were talking about. As for Thiel - $1M might seem like a lot - but Trump doesn't really 'owe' Thiel anything, because Thiel doesn't have direct future influence etc., and…

This is just nonsense. Trump never provided his tax returns for scrutiny so unlike Hillary we don't know who exactly he is beholden to. What we know from his son, sources and leaks is that Russian ogligarchs with ties to Putin do hold significant amounts of his company's debt. It is this type of "pay to play" that is far, far beyond anything that has ever been seen before.

Personal finances are another issue altogether.

He is audited every single year, and there is very deep scrutiny of his personal finances. There are many in the IRS who would love to find something wrong.

It's the political favours and support that mattes.

I will say this: the laws concerning 'conflict of interest' are very weak in the US for the office of the Pres. It's possible that a Malaysian leader could buy favour by offering him a future sweet deal on land for a Casino in Manila type thing. Again - I don't like Trump, and don't think he's evil and probably won't be looking for that kind of deal ... but I also bet he just might not be able to resist!

Anyhow - as of today, he owes almost nothing politically. That's what's weird about it: he's the least civic minded pres in modern history - who also is the most unencumbered! Crazy.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#300

Post by threeseed »

Tycho wrote: post #277
threeseed wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just nonsense. Trump never provided his tax returns for scrutiny so unlike Hillary we don't know who exactly he is beholden to. What we know from his son, sources and leaks is that Russian ogligarchs with ties to Putin do hold significant amounts of his company's debt. It is this type of "pay to play" that is far, far beyond anything that has ever been seen before.

Why would we learn anything new about that from his tax return? Doesn't the financial disclosure filing cover that?

Tax returns provide additional information.

For example they describe in detail the tax mix e.g. income versus capital gains, as well as the nature of liquid assets, deduction types etc.

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